Deadly Cupcakes

Game Discussion => Outside Azeroth - General Chatter => Topic started by: Tweed on November 03, 2017, 11:32:11 AM

Title: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Tweed on November 03, 2017, 11:32:11 AM
Jesus, I come back here to check on you guys and find no one has posted about WoW: Classic? What the fuck are you guys doing?

https://www.polygon.com/2017/11/3/16603922/world-of-warcraft-classic-announced-trailer-wow-blizzcon-2017
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on November 03, 2017, 11:35:48 AM
I was looking around for an old thread about it to post in, and didn't find one.  I don't think classic servers will interest many people here (or at least, not for very long) and they didn't announce a timeline for it.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Honorata on November 03, 2017, 11:47:17 AM
I'm mildly interested in it. I played on some Blizzlike private servers but couldn't handle the extremely alt-right-y community on them. If the official server(s) attracts a more varied community it might be fun as a diversion. I'll be interested to see how this plays out at least.

http://www.pcgamer.com/this-is-how-blizzard-plans-to-finally-bring-back-vanilla-wow-servers/
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on November 03, 2017, 01:04:38 PM
I guess I'm interested to find out how much of the old generally-perceived-as-bad stuff gets retained.  Will warriors be the only viable tanks at the high end?  Will DPS be threat-limited and threat levels only determinable via addons which have to guess based on combat log events?  Will there be raid frames in the default UI or will you need a mod to heal outside of your group?  Will addons like the old Decursive and HateMe (https://wow.curseforge.com/projects/project-782/pages/main-de-de) be allowed?
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Honorata on November 03, 2017, 01:15:27 PM
I think "viable ret paladins" would bother a lot of the classic community, but most of the private servers run on the 1.12 client, which has a slightly wider selection of "viable specs" than the full vanilla experience. (You can't tank everything with a bear on private servers, but you can tank a lot more things with bears than you remember being able to. Assuming you have the expanded debuff slots situation, one shadow priest per raid becomes viable if you have enough warlocks, etc.)
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Edalia on November 03, 2017, 01:17:28 PM
I guess I'm interested to find out how much of the old generally-perceived-as-bad stuff gets retained.  Will warriors be the only viable tanks at the high end?  Will DPS be threat-limited and threat levels only determinable via addons which have to guess based on combat log events?  Will there be raid frames in the default UI or will you need a mod to heal outside of your group?  Will addons like the old Decursive and HateMe (https://wow.curseforge.com/projects/project-782/pages/main-de-de) be allowed?

I feel like any of the later improvements will ruin the "vanilla experience," such as non-Warrior tanks and DPS being able to go wild. I wouldn't be surprised if UI QoL changes like built-in raid frames make it in, but you'll certainly have to scrimp and save to be able to afford your mount at 40. Have fun walking across Stranglethorn!

I'd hope they at least have some sort of quest tracking and mapping, like current live. Inb4 Mankrik's Wife spam.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Honorata on November 03, 2017, 01:21:12 PM
Here's my question: Will Classic have its own version of the WoW token? Because like, that was put in in the main game to be a way to kill goldsellers, but goldsellers/leveling services/etc. are a lot more compelling to people in a context like Vanilla than they were in the modern game. (Elysium private server basically imploded because one of the mods was running a behind-the-scenes goldselling scam on the side.)
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Leah on November 03, 2017, 08:04:59 PM
One of my burning questions concerns PVP, specifically if Marks of Honor for the 3 battlegrounds will return. I didn't have a lot of exposure to Vanilla, coming in a few months before BC's release, but it was one of the few times I enjoyed PVP.

This entire classic concept is incredibly interesting and I look forward to following the development to see where the compromises are and what kind of draw it actually ends up being. I don't even play these days due to lack of time so I can't imagine trying to play on a classic server in addition to the normal ones.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Honorata on November 03, 2017, 08:41:45 PM
I can't imagine them not doing that? The quests for marks has been a thing on most Blizzlike private servers.

One thing I'm curious about now that you've brought up PvP is if they'll bring back the honor ranking thing. On the one hand, that is part of the draw for some people who play on private servers, but on the other hand, holy shit I can't see Blizzard encouraging that level of poopsocking ever again because it is the legitimate worst.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Kudger on November 03, 2017, 09:14:30 PM
I'm personally incredibly excited for Classic servers. To experience all those old zones again is enough to make me re-subscribe on its own, let alone to play the new expansion. Because of this news I am now looking into upgrading my internet on Guam to run WoW and buying Legion (waiting for Black Friday Sale). Blizzard gave me an early Christmas gift with this news and I will be happy to support them  8)

I strongly suspect the servers will be set to near the end of Vanilla in terms of patches (all raids open, issues like debuff limit being fixed, etc) so we don't end up with some of the early issues that were almost entirely attributable to the first gen devs cutting their teeth and learning as they went. I hope they do periodic events like a once a year AQ opening event but that may be asking too much.

The key thing with a Classic server is that people need to manage their expectations. Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with the notion that, if you want to raid, you roll a warrior if you want to tank, a priest/druid/pally to heal, etc. It's my personal belief that the movement to make all specs of all classes equally viable has led to homogenization.

I'm also greatly looking forward to some old-school Vanilla PvP! I know getting Grand Marshal was a herculean task but, when you think about it, so is getting rank 1 Gladiator today. I'll be just fine being one of the Knight ranks just like I was fine with 1900 RBG rating. Plus, old school AV!!!

One thing I'd like to emphasize for folks on the fence about a Classic server is that the experience is extremely open ended for us to make our own fun. Back then my best friend and I would challenge ourselves by trying to two-man the hardest content we could. It got to the point where I enjoyed it more than raiding and this is coming from someone who's guild got through most of Naxx before TBC came out. My all-time favorite memory of Classic is when we two-manned the entirety of BRD and our guild wouldn't believe us until we posted screenshots (my friend was a pally tank, btw, so warriors aren't the only ones who could tank ).

Want to be a bear-tank? Shoot, bring 4 of us along and I would personally be happy to help you successfully bear tank. Want to priest-dps? Why the heck not, I'm not out to min/max so I'd be glad to be in a dungeon party with you or even raid. I don't have any illusions of killing Kel-thuzad but just want to experience the vibrant world that was Classic with everyone.

Anywho, that's my two cents  :)

Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on January 31, 2018, 07:30:56 AM
There were a bunch of BfA interviews released yesterday, but the first half of this interview was about classic:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hnewman/2018/01/30/classic-servers-cats-and-cute-things-the-world-of-warcraft-interview/#1161bc9f5134

There aren't really any big reveals here, but there is some insight into why it's taking them so long when there are already private servers doing it.  This is probably one of those cases where a group of motivated volunteers working on a shoestring budget with no SLA can go a lot faster than a group of paid employees who have to worry about availability and continuing maintenance costs.

(The other half of the interview is about BfA islands and pet models, and I wish this part were available in video because there was some pretty funny banter.)
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on June 15, 2018, 12:26:43 PM
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/21881587/dev-watercooler-world-of-warcraft-classic

This mostly reads as a kind of work blog, which is unusual for Blizzard and maybe not all that interesting.  As far as players are concerned, I think the only big reveal here is that classic will be based on patch 1.12.  I'm not sure if that means 1.12.0 or 1.12.3, and it matters; there were some pretty big changes to riding skill in 1.12.1.

They do say they will be using basically current code with old data, to avoid having to maintain the old code.  I wonder how much new behavior will bleed through from using the current code.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Honorata on June 15, 2018, 07:09:22 PM
Hard to tell. I expect by "patch 1.12" they mean "the 1.12 that most of the classic community has gotten used to since that's what all the private servers were based on." I have no idea what sub-build that tends to be, since a quick google shows that MaNGOS (the scripting, etc. of the back-end for most of those servers) is compatible with 1.12.x.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Current code with classic data/behavior was what Talarian (twitter friend) speculated would be the choice they made for development, and it's my understanding this is how Everquest runs their classic/progression servers, so there's precedent for it. Not sure how "true to life" the experience is, although at this point, Classic's been theorycrafted for 14 years so how "true to life" the experience can even be is, uh, up for debate.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on June 15, 2018, 08:17:36 PM
Thinking on this a bit more, I'm particularly curious about macros and addons.  In classic, the API offered less combat log information and could omit events altogether based on range.  But it was also much less restrictive, allowing addons like classic Decursive, or HateMe which created a one-button tanking rotation.  That doesn't sound like data-driven behavior, and it doesn't sound like a small amount of effort to add a "behave like classic" flag to the API.  Allowing precise threat meters and disallowing Decursive isn't exactly faithful to the classic experience.  Of course, we also have much more sophisticated addon authors today, who would likely take the capabilities of the classic API well beyond what people did back then.  AVR (drawing on the field of battle and sharing those drawings with others) will quickly be implemented if it's possible, imprecise threat meters could be made more precise with better theorycrafting, etc..
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Fallowgrey on June 16, 2018, 04:53:06 AM
I thought the cutest part was explaining table normalization as a "new" programming thing.  Like data structure practice just didn't exist in the early 2000s.  (Lemme save you that quick Google: 1971)

But I guess any opportunity taken to educate is a good thing.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on September 26, 2018, 10:03:16 AM
Blizzard is going to have a demo of WoW Classic at Blizzcon, and the demo will also be available to virtual ticket holders.  This could affect the price of the WoW token, though probably only briefly.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/22551243
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Leah on November 02, 2018, 05:20:08 PM
The biggest pieces of news regarding Wow Classic were that it will be free with a paid subscription to the mainline game and that they're targeting next summer for a release date. Supposedly there were all sorts of issues with leftover bits of UI and under the hood mechanics during the playable demos but they've got plenty of time to work those out. According to Lore, sharding will be a part of the game to ensure that there are others to play with and make it feel like a full world and that's been hit with the expected criticism.

I maintain my view that playing the game will be a fun thing to visit now and then but I can't imagine that it will be as popular as some are predicting. I view the majority of the core mechanic changes that have happened over the years as an evolution of the game to make it more enjoyable. I miss the old talent trees because I found them quite fun but I'm decidedly not looking forward to staying in SW spamming for groups as an example.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on November 02, 2018, 06:56:34 PM
According to Lore, sharding will be a part of the game to ensure that there are others to play with and make it feel like a full world and that's been hit with the expected criticism.
What he said was much less commital than that: https://us.battle.net/forums/wow/topic/20769548630#15 .  Sharding might or might not be in.  He also ruled out CRZ; sharding does not help with ensuring that there are others to play with, only ensuring that there aren't too many.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on November 03, 2018, 07:52:05 PM
It looks like some details surfaced at a blizzcon panel, going by Blizzard's recap.

* 16 debuff limit
* Auto-completion of mail recipients and opening all mail has been left in
* The ability to trade BOPs within a time window has been left in.  (I think the core audience will hate this, since it encourages people to roll need and then trade items to friends; from Blizzard's perspective the alternative is fielding a lot of tickets to do roughly the same thing.)
* They are still evaluating the addon API.  They do not want to roll all the way back to 1.12 as they anticipate people would do far too much automation; at the same time, the modern API is probably too generous in other ways such as social features.
* Raid content will be released in four stages, not all at once.

There was nothing in this post about sharding, but in the WoW Q+A panel I think they said they might use it for a couple of weeks at launch and then take it out.  (I would imagine that they could also set the sharding limits pretty high if their only goal is to keep the servers running smoothly, as opposed to keeping quest areas from being overpopulated.)

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/22646759
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Honorata on November 03, 2018, 08:26:38 PM
I was really curious about raid staggering; glad to see they're gating or people would get through stuff way too fast. (Sure with 2 loots per boss for 40m it'll take a while to gear people, but the heavy lifting of strat prep is done, and MC/BWL are already nerfed from their classic versions by 1.12 talents and the extra debuff slots.)

16 debuff slots from the beginning also means one shadow priest/40m will be viable the whole way through instead of just at the end, so get ready to fight for your single raid spot to buff the warlocks, boys.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on March 11, 2019, 09:04:43 AM
* Raid content will be released in four stages, not all at once.

This has been increased to six stages, following the patch progression of original WoW (two patches per phase), with some drop tables adjusted so that items that didn't exist pre-1.10 won't drop before phase 5.

I have heard concerns that multiple factors are going to make the early raids too easy right off the bat--player sophistication chief among them, but also itemization and class changes.  This new plan helps significantly on the itemization front by holding back Dire Maul, but I believe some items were also buffed over the course of classic.  I don't know if Blizzard can or will address that since I don't know if they can authoritatively recover the data on those changes.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/classic-content-plan/120346
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Piralyn on March 11, 2019, 09:33:22 AM
I'm actually interested to see how the raid pace works out, given all the hypotheticals/assumptions. There's certainly a case to be made that player sophistication will change things, since a lot of the mechanics that were "new" and bewildering back then aren't any more, but I suspect people may be overvaluing that a bit. Classes are going to be pretty dramatically different in Classic than they are now, and while I feel like I remember quite a bit from how my Rogue and Druid played back in 2006, I imagine that I'm fuzzing quite a lot and muscle memory would make it a bitch to play smoothly. That said, I'm glad that they're replicating the pattern of releases to try to recreate the progression curve, although I am curious what will trigger the next phase. Are they going to schedule it out, wait for a certain amount of progression? Most of those early phases came out in rapid succession. Dire Maul to Blackwing Lair was just a few months and within 6 months of that, AQ was out. Contrast that to the like 6 months between phases we have in Legion/BFA.

Class changes are likely to be the biggest contributor to raid ease, since starting classes at 1.12--which I believe is there intent?--includes a ton of rebalances and quality of life changes. Like, greater blessings, as an example, is a huge power shift. I understand it's pretty much impossible to replicate that--even if we have detailed patch notes, jesus christ is that a lot of work--but that's probably going to be the biggest adjuster of progression rather than itemization/player sophistication.

I think there's enough kludgy mechanics in there to not make it as plug and play as some people are expecting. Like, what fight is like Razorgore in BWL in recent memory?  I'm curious to see how people adapt to that kind of bizarre mechanical fight again in contrast to the current style of "how many mechanics can we layer on top of each other" and "stand in this but don't stand in that" fights.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Honorata on March 19, 2019, 09:46:58 PM
I believe some items were also buffed over the course of classic.  I don't know if Blizzard can or will address that since I don't know if they can authoritatively recover the data on those changes.


FWIW I know both Elysium and Nostalrius updated itemization over the course of their fake "patch cycle,"/content release cycles so the information seems to be out there, although whether or not Blizzard takes that information as gospel/uses it is anyone's guess.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: **andius on March 20, 2019, 06:58:44 AM
It still comes down to what version of "classic" people are going to get. I get a feeling there is going to be quite a few disappointed people when it finally comes out. It is not been helped by Blizzard not being clear on what there vision of "classic" is.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on March 20, 2019, 07:11:12 AM
Blizzard has been reasonably clear that the steady state will be 1.12.  Every amendment to that so far has been temporary subtraction--content or items being unavailable until the appropriate phase comes up.

This came up recently with the announcement (https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/alterac-valley-in-classic/128908/1) that Alterac Valley will be the 1.12 version: no Korrak the Bloodrager, fewer guards, and lower HP on the mobs.  (1.12 also had cross-realm BGs, according to a player, but Blizzard hasn't said anything about that specifically.)  A number of players in the thread preferred the 1.5 AV but weren't surprised to be getting the 1.12 version.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on March 22, 2019, 10:29:09 AM
* The ability to trade BOPs within a time window has been left in.  (I think the core audience will hate this, since it encourages people to roll need and then trade items to friends; from Blizzard's perspective the alternative is fielding a lot of tickets to do roughly the same thing.)
Blizzard today amended this plan so that it will only apply to loot obtained in raids with lockouts (so not UBRS).  I feel like there's still some potential for abuse in pick-up raids, but this obviously this removes the potential for abuse in dungeon groups.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/loot-trading-in-classic/131586
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on May 14, 2019, 07:40:51 AM
Launch date is August 26/27.  Character creation (and thus name reservation) begins August 13.  Closed beta begins tomorrow, with some stress tests on specific dates.  People will need to opt in for a beta invite.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/22990080
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Fernia on May 14, 2019, 09:54:26 AM
I look forward to getting murdered by Patches.
again.
and again.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Piralyn on May 14, 2019, 11:41:25 AM
It will be a welcome change from getting murdered by patches with a lowercase p, yeah?
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Fernia on May 14, 2019, 01:05:41 PM
Vanilla had some pretty crippling patches from what I remember :)
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on May 17, 2019, 10:24:55 AM
Blizzard did a press event for classic.  wowhead has a roundup here (https://www.wowhead.com/news=291753/wow-classic-summit-community-information-round-up).  I don't plan to watch the interviews, but from the summary I noticed:

* Retail and Classic can not be used at the same time by the same account.

I think this is the wrong decision--retail and classic are different games, and I can play WoW and Overwatch at the same time.  There may be a technical reason which isn't easy to change.

* The old mount system (Cheap training, expensive mounts) will be in Classic the whole time, it won't change to the updated system from 1.12.1.

Interesting mostly because it means 1.12 isn't synonymous with 1.12.2.  (I believe everything else in 1.12.1 and 1.12.2 is bugfixes.)

* Conversations have already started about Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King servers, as long as there is a demand in the community.

* Servers will have new names, to not create confusion from retail.

Probably the right decision, but it may make it harder for people who played together in vanilla to find each other.

* There will be at least one RP server in Classic.

* Content beyond Phase 6 (Naxx) is a possibility, "anything is on the table. This (Classic) is a love letter to our fans.". Blizzard isn't planning on it right now, but if the community wants it, they can talk about that.

I think adding raids beyond Naxx would count as fouling the waters, so I'm guessing that the person being interviewed was simply talking about BC and Wrath servers.

Also, a while ago Blizzard revealed that they have developed a restricted form of sharding called "layering" which will be used to handle the initial overload at classic launch.  Layering will separate populations of players within a server like sharding does, but without some of the weird phasing we can see in retail (particularly at zone boundaries).  wowhead has an article about layering here (https://classic.wowhead.com/news=291722/layering-in-classic-wow).
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: **andius on May 17, 2019, 10:53:48 AM
Blizzard did a press event for classic.  wowhead has a roundup here (https://www.wowhead.com/news=291753/wow-classic-summit-community-information-round-up).  I don't plan to watch the interviews, but from the summary I noticed:

* Retail and Classic can not be used at the same time by the same account.

I think this is the wrong decision--retail and classic are different games, and I can play WoW and Overwatch at the same time.  There may be a technical reason which isn't easy to change.


Classic is just a different server with a different game mode and rules not a different game and you pay to play one character at a time.
If you paid extra for access to classic I could see you being able to play both at the same time. If you want to play both at the same time get another account :)
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Glognar on May 18, 2019, 08:25:33 AM
Played a little last night with my new hunter!

Having a quiver with arrows sure brought back memories!

Glog
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Winston on May 18, 2019, 11:54:05 AM
* There will be at least one RP server in Classic.

Out of curiosity, did they mention whether Blizzard would be enforcing RP guidelines the way they did back in vanilla Wow? Would someone with a name like Hrneeduud be forced to change it?

On a side note: Will it be just as hard to find Mankirk's wife?
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Piralyn on May 20, 2019, 06:47:59 AM
I find some humor in the "This is how it is/was and not a bug" blue post

Quote
As we’ve discussed before, the nature of WoW Classic sometimes invokes different memories for different players, and this leads to certain misconceptions for some about what is or isn’t working as intended.

The following is a list of commonly-reported gameplay in WoW Classic that is not actually a bug, and is working as we expect it to:

    Tauren’s hitboxes and their melee reach is slightly larger than other races.
    Being critically struck while using /sit to sit does not cause abilities like Enrage, Blood Craze, and Reckoning to activate.
    Using the “Automatic Quest Tracking” option does not auto-track newly accepted quests. (It instead will start to track an existing quest once progress towards an objective is started.)
    Warrior health Regeneration is working at the expected rate.
    Quests objectives and points of interests are not tracked on the map or minimap.
    Completed quests are marked on the minimap with a dot. (and not a “?”)
    Feared players and NPCs run fast.
    Standing on top of other players while facing away allows spells and attacks to be used.
    Creature respawn rates are much slower than in Battle for Azeroth.
    NPCs which offer multiple quests may inconsistently display them as a dot or a “!” on the available quests list. They were inconsistent in 1.12, and we’ve reproduced the exact inconsistency they had back then.
    Quests that are too low level for do not show up as a “!” in the game world.
    Available quests do not display a “!” on the minimap.
    On level up, the message: “Your skill in Protection increased to 15” was added in 1.12.1, and we’re intending to keep that.


We appreciate all of your feedback!
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on May 20, 2019, 08:01:53 AM
Most of those are "people don't remember or didn't experience how much weird stuff in classic has been smoothed out", but there are some interesting other categories of bugs.

From the department of "private servers define my intuition of what classic is", a lot of people have been watching streamers having an easy time in low-level dungeons and concluding that damage from elites must be too low.  People who have done actual research (using archival footage of classic) have concluded that the damage is fine.  Cree and I once went into Deadmines as a warrior/paladin duo at level 20 and either finished or got almost to the end; the idea that classic is hardmode is overblown.

From the department of "really tiny things define my sense of immersion", there are people advocating for the return of moonwalking (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nYFSvid1ro).
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Piralyn on May 20, 2019, 08:14:04 AM
The internet was a much simpler place a decade ago.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Edalia on May 22, 2019, 09:32:37 AM
woof, I forgot how NOT nostalgic I am for things like skill points.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Snique on May 23, 2019, 05:34:20 AM
woof, I forgot how NOT nostalgic I am for things like skill points.

I actually liked skill points, as a concept. There are lots of games that implement skill point-based or -like systems well, and you can use the points to change the focus or style of your character. Unfortunately WoW made skill trees too big and too unbalanced so there was always a "right" solution and people who didn't pick those choices were harming others, particularly when the group was struggling.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: jsoh on May 23, 2019, 06:01:43 AM
Oooooh. I won a new 2H axe. Big upgrade!

... except for the fact that I have no skill in 2H axe. Can we pause the raid while I go beat on shit for an hour?

Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Fernia on May 23, 2019, 06:13:34 AM
I always thought Ultima Online had the most wonderfully flawed system:  you gained skill points by doing things.  Of course, they didn't want people to max everything on a single character, so they made a maximum total skill.  So, if you hit the maximum, and you gained a point in something useless then you would lose a point in something useful.

Like ... brushing against something without a sword equipped would drop the last point in magic that took you a month to get.

Flawless system.
Didn't "fix" that design issue for a long time...
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Leah on May 24, 2019, 01:26:37 PM
Oooooh. I won a new 2H axe. Big upgrade!

... except for the fact that I have no skill in 2H axe. Can we pause the raid while I go beat on shit for an hour?

Keeping in mind that I didn't start playing until a few months before the launch of BC, I distinctly remember doing the warrior quest chain for my whirlwind weapon, choosing the Whirlwind Axe, and keeping it for a VERY long time. A big part of that was because I didn't want to level up weapon skill for anything else but that in turn made a bond of sorts with that weapon.

Of course, I also remember being on my hunter and getting some kind of weapon upgrade that was different than anything else I had used so I spending copious amounts of time annoying Dr. Boom in Netherstorm so YMMV.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on June 11, 2019, 10:13:32 PM
* They are still evaluating the addon API.  They do not want to roll all the way back to 1.12 as they anticipate people would do far too much automation; at the same time, the modern API is probably too generous in other ways such as social features.
wowhead highlighted a post by the author of DBM: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/are-raids-addons-too-powerfull-for-classic/195291/117

It sounds like classic's addon/macro API will be the modern API (with all of its restrictions), and from there will remove features which weren't present in 1.12 like threat information and mob health.  Back before threat information was part of the API, addons like Omen had to guess at it, and they weren't perfect.  I'm guessing that modern addon designers can do a much better job of reverse engineering the in-game threat information, though.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on June 17, 2019, 01:27:10 PM
The classic stress test from June 19-21 will allow access to anyone with a paid-up WoW account, no invite needed.  Level cap is 15.

Based on reports on past stress tests, expect a lot of trouble logging in towards the beginning of the test period.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/wow-classic-stress-test-june-19-21/200695
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Brynndolin on June 19, 2019, 07:12:21 AM
Because I came right at BC, I never really knew what classes were super shunned in Vanilla. Of course I want to be a moonkin - definitely remember shunning as I tried to get into BC things as one so I assume it's one of those barely viable classes?
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on June 19, 2019, 10:30:41 AM
I think balance druid was a pretty bad spec in classic, yeah.  From what I remember, druids and paladins got shoehorned into healing for raids (and even then weren't really as good as priests, but they brought some class-specific utility).
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Yharon on July 04, 2019, 10:27:48 PM
Yeah, moonkin were the poster child of bad PvE offspecs. On the plus side druids get a little love in that guardians can tank most content competently in 1.12, other classes like paladin and shaman are stuck with only one viable raid role.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Snique on August 03, 2019, 12:13:12 PM
The Battle.net launcher is advertising a "pre launch testing" of classic for August 8.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Yharon on August 08, 2019, 04:04:04 PM
Playing the stress test right now and the Horde start zone on the RP-PvP realm is literally crawling with people even with their layering.  I love it!
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on August 09, 2019, 08:36:42 AM
Blizzard has released the initial classic realm list.  Character names can be reserved starting August 12 (Monday) at 6pm eastern.  For our region there are four PvE realms, five PvP realms, one RP realm (Bloodsail Buccaneers), one RP-PvP realm, and two Oceanic realms.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/wow-classic-realm-names-and-types/246645

[ETA: Blizzard added a sixth PvP realm: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t//253667/1 ]
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Fallowgrey on August 09, 2019, 09:52:43 AM
Thanks, Marco.

My plan is now to start at least (and probably no more than) an Orc Shaman on Bloodsail Buccaneers.  I'm in Classic to see the Horde side lore I missed having not played that side until after Cataclysm.  Questing is what I'll be doing, not PvP.  I'm hopeful I'll find a guild to 1) not be destitute, 2) do 3-5 man quest bosses, and maybe 3) heal some dungeons, assuming they want to take their time and not rush through 'em like it's Mythic+.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Jenilea on August 11, 2019, 08:48:12 AM
Blizz has set up forum posts for each vanilla realm back in the day for people to post and reconnect with those that played in 2004-2006. The ER forum is at https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/earthen-ring-alliance-reconnections/227750/80 - some nostalgia there for sure!

I am still undecided whether to play classic but nostalgia is a powerful driver!
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Fallowgrey on August 12, 2019, 02:49:08 PM
My plan is now to start at least (and probably no more than) an Orc Shaman on Bloodsail Buccaneers. 

Orc Shaman Krais@Bloodsail Buccaneers.  And Krais@Mankrik as well, because 45 minutes of repeated connection disconnects trying to get on Bloodsail Buccaneers.  (I lost count around 15 tries.)

Oh, and Dwarf Priest Fallowgrey@Bloodsail Buccaneers as well, because *mine*.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Deckard on August 12, 2019, 03:24:23 PM
It's been a while, ladies and gents.  I'll be back for classic as a warrior named Buliwyf on Bloodsail Buccaneers.  My blizzard tag is Nelno#1621.  Say hello!

Brynndolin, if you send me any more carp, so help me god...
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on August 12, 2019, 03:31:53 PM
I reserved Marco, Tulgey, and Uffish on Bloodsail Buccaneers, under the theory that if I do play (not that likely) it will probably be as a warrior, warlock, or priest.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Jenilea on August 14, 2019, 07:49:01 PM
I have created Jenilea (a human this time around because I am still recovering from the crick in my neck playing a gnome!) and Lindi. I also created a rogue, Jindoran, on Whitemane in case I want to do the PvP thing (I spent 6 months of vanilla on Emerald Dream).
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Zildjian on August 17, 2019, 07:51:23 AM
So Bloodsail Buccaneers is looking like the default Deadly Cupcakes realm?

I'd suggest one big guild called Deadly Cupcakes for everyone playing in Classic.

I played the beta and liked it a lot more than I thought I would. Main reason is the questing forced actual extended grouping where you socially interacted with people again vs the current experience of clicking to group to complete the daily quests and then immediately disbanding without a word said to each other.

Edit: And someone got Zildjian already (or it was otherwise disallowed). Looks like I'm Zildj instead on Bloodsail Buccaneers.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on August 22, 2019, 07:58:14 PM
The three-name reservation cap will be lifted at 1pm EST Monday (August 26), after which the limit will be ten characters per realm and 50 per account (separate from retail characters).  I think that's five hours before classic releases.

Some new realms have been added based on the number of name reservations.  They're mostly PvP realms and some Normal realms; there's still just one RP and one RP-PvP realm.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/new-wow-classic-realms-opening-monday-august-26/263309
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on August 23, 2019, 09:32:50 PM
Blizzard has decided to prevent an addon called "ClassicLFG" from working.  This decision is interesting from two perspectives.  First, they aren't doing it for fidelity to the 1.12 addon API (which was very unrestricted compared to either the retail or classic addon APIs), but out of a desire for fidelity to the experience of forming groups in classic.  Second, there may have to be some collateral damage to really prevent this sort of addon.  For instance, roleplaying addons (which display a character's RP backstory to other people with the addon) rely on pretty much the same kind of background inter-player communication as an LFG addon.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/classiclfg-addon/263761/10
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Piralyn on August 26, 2019, 06:39:55 AM
It will be interesting to see how far they take that. The add-on API being relatively more modern vs 1.12 means there will be less of the add-ons that existed back then that simplified gameplay (although 1.12 is post-Decursive, etc) but there's plenty of newer things that would have been unimaginable back then.

I imagine that a web LFG tool will appear imminently.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on August 26, 2019, 07:36:39 AM
It will be interesting to see how far they take that. The add-on API being relatively more modern vs 1.12 means there will be less of the add-ons that existed back then that simplified gameplay (although 1.12 is post-Decursive, etc) but there's plenty of newer things that would have been unimaginable back then.
I thought Decursive etc. only went away in 2.0.

Per this post (https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/are-raids-addons-too-powerfull-for-classic/195291/117) Blizzard has disabled most of the additional features of the modern addon API, while preserving the restrictions.  I think some of the terrible parts of the 1.12 API like only getting partial combat log information (so you had to merge logs with those of other players) are fixed.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Piralyn on August 26, 2019, 07:45:37 AM
I thought they killed Decursive at SOME point in 1.X, because I vaguely remember being annoyed by ZG/AQ stuff without it suddenly. Being like a decade and a half ago, though, it's plausible I'm remembering wrong.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Piralyn on August 26, 2019, 07:47:43 AM
Actually spending 30 seconds Googling appears that it did indeed break with 2.0, which was a couple of months prior to BC. That explains why I remember missing it in ZG/AQ but it still worked in 1.12.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on August 26, 2019, 10:36:51 PM
An interview with Ion about classic layering, queues, and server populations:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hnewman/2019/08/26/warcraft-classic-layering-and-realm-queues-ion-hazzikostas-explains-why-youre-waiting-to-log-in/#6c748a317e45

This is kind of a fascinating engineering problem.  There have been very few re-launches of old versions of MMOs (I think Runescape may have done it).  Trying to predict the falloff from name reservations to launch-day player demand to long-term realm populations is very difficult.  If they miss the mark one way, they can open up new realms and perhaps offer free transfers off, which is sort of but not amazingly effective.  If they miss the mark the other way, they can do server merges, which are highly disruptive (I assume they don't want to do "connected realms" since those weren't in classic).

Twitch streams for WoW (classic and live, but probably mostly classic) reached a combined peak of at least 1.2 million viewers during launch.  As I type this, it's at 409K viewers, over five times as many as the second-most popular game.  Pretty wild.

The launch predictably had some technical and capacity problems.  I was watching Taliesin's stream; he was playing on the EU RP-PvP server, which probably had lower demand than most servers.  He and Evitel were able to log in, but layering didn't work perfectly for groups (people had to relog to be in the same layer), there was significant lag, and of course trying to tag mobs for the starting Forsaken quest was miserable.  Blizzard reported they were working on fixing "world server down" issues some players saw; I saw other reports of people stuck in absurdly long queues.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Snique on August 27, 2019, 05:51:09 AM
I am honestly baffled by the whole classic thing. It's easy to remember and relate all the bad things (I played a freaking paladin, fercrissake, the only class so boring that Blizzard gave them a suicide button. And the five minute buffs and the piles of consumables for them and on and on).

What did I like in classic? I played with some cool people. Some of them I still play with in live, but most long ago moved on to other things. I don't think more than a tiny fraction will be back for classic.

Also, there was some fun content. Six hour forty-person Molten Core runs were not fun, except see above about the people. (Like, Snique and Cogi competing to see who could pull mobs in MC because our raid had no hunters, or did but hunter pets were buggy AF.)

But that's about it. Leveling was miserable, class balance was to laugh, loot was basically a source of misery, and basically all the lessons we've learned over the last decade about what makes playing an MMO better go out the window. So what gives? Is it just nostalgia? People with serious rose-colored glasses syndrome?
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Yharon on August 27, 2019, 06:19:16 AM
Is it just nostalgia? People with serious rose-colored glasses syndrome?

To an extent, yes.  But there are also several things that have gone very wrong with the retail game over the years.  To a large extent it has devolved into a lobby for mini-games; there's no feeling of a coherent living social world like there is in classic. 

When was the last time you ran into a random in retail and had a meaningful interaction, for example? Made a friend that you continued to do other content with out in the world?  I'm personally not a huge fan of the class balance in classic (I liked BC class balance the most) but I'll take it over the blandness that is retail.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on August 27, 2019, 07:03:28 AM
Perhaps.  I think community is still there on retail if you look for it.  And I think a lot of people will find that classic won't give them today what it gave them fourteen years ago, and will leave pretty quickly.

Regardless, when developers offered a realm type with no CRZ, no LFD, no LFR, and no character transfers, but modern content, players were very clear that that wasn't what they wanted.  They wanted old content and graphics, bad class balance, crazy itemization, hordes of murlocs clipping through boats, etc..  (To be fair, some aspects of the modern game, like flying, can't be reversed through realm rules.)
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Kharvek on August 27, 2019, 09:50:12 AM
I am also in the baffled camp.  The argument I get the most is the social aspect and that questing was harder and more challenging and it forced you to group up and the methods to meet people meant you actually talked to them.  Again, I think there's a lot of rose colored glasses there since there's a lot of things that exist now that didn't then, and there will be things that happen in "modern" classic that wouldn't in classic classic.

IE: Right now when a new dungeon comes out, you have about 2 days to learn it before you're expected to know everything when you enter a random.  Back then?  That wasn't the case.  Resources like wowhead were in their infancy and the amount of information being shared online was nowhere what it used to be.  You didn't have plucky Brits making clear and coherent fight videos for raids before they were released, instead people held onto that information to keep an edge.  But now we all do have that knowledge, the expectations will be there.  Now most the people I know diving back into classic are going in with groups of friends who played so they don't need to meet people there and it will fix some of the issues I had which was...I often ended up playing solo since I honestly had a hell of a time finding people I wanted to play with and honestly a lot of the time I wanted to quest solo.  The old game was not kind to playing solo and I honestly did not have the experience many of you did with meeting people through playing the game.  That wasn't my experience at all. 

We all know class balance was a mess back then, but data collection and processing tools have gotten so sophisticated now I'm curious to how bad it's going to be revealed it was.  WoW classic had a ton of issues, but a lot of them we were less aware of since we just didn't know any better.  It was the first time a lot of us played a game of this nature and we were in a completely different headspace for it.  We aren't now.  The genie is out of the bottle and we have that knowledge.  We know that when we look at that talent tree that represented a sea of choices back then, in reality is...."There are maybe three or build "right" builds depending on what you want to do, and any other exploration and experimentation will result in a disaster of a character"  You can go back to how the game used to be but you can't go back to what your knowledge was back then, or what the community knowledge was back then.  MMO's were brand spankin new, everything was a mystery to be uncovered.  WoW was likely the first time many players ever raided, outside of maybe the old hardcore EQ crowd.  Almost EVERYONE was doing everything for the first time.  That's not the case anymore.

The game back then hardcore didn't respect my time either.  Sure I felt more accomplished to hit max level back then since it took so goddamn long, but I was also in college, briefly between jobs and in my 20's where I had more energy to work 10 hours a day and dump a bunch of time into the game.  That isn't my life anymore.  I don't have time to play a game that gives you this tiniest of trickle of reward for the time I put in.  Levelling takes forever, rep grinds were absurd, and if you wanted to do anything fun you had to invest even more time to maybe get the proper resist gear to enable you to do the thing you wanted....and before that you needed to do the quest chain to do it, which all require all manner of things to do that require time, groups of people of varying sizes and more.  I have a hard enough time investing the time in WoW solo content in the modern game, I can't imagine going back to how it used to be.  I don't want to quest for 2 hours and look down and see "Oh, I made it halfway to level 25"  I don't miss trying to discern where to go on the map from quest descriptions at all.  I don't miss any of that.  If I want rewarding exploration/detective gameplay?  I'll play a different game.  There are games I want to play to be challenged by myself and WoW is definitely not one of them.

The game is better now.  BFA has made a ton of mistakes, but it is a better game.  Legion is the single best expansion WoW has ever seen.  It dethroned Wrath for me.  They've made plenty of dumb choices, but the net gain is better and many of the problems with modern WoW are less to do with the game, and more to do with an evolved and veteran playerbase.  We are all 15 year veterans of MMOs.  The loot system changes and flexible raiding have been absolute godsends.  I think back to the days of complicated rostering spreadsheets and complicate loot systems and all the drama that happens when you have 40 people fighting over 2 drops from a boss?  And who gets to do the day you know you'll kill the thing that has the stuff you want?  I don't miss that, I don't miss that at all.  Now I can show up Tuesday, whip up a group and if some people can and can't go, it isn't a huge problem.  The days of scrambling for backups and stressing out "Are we going to field a raid today" are gone because of changes Blizzard has made.  The amount of stress the game incurs is at an all time low and I love showing up Tuesdays and Thursdays with people I like hanging out with and solving various raid puzzles and talking about butts and dicks.

I don't miss MC.  I don't miss 10 man dungeons.  I don't miss questing and the lack of tools.  ....but hey, I'm happy for all you folks that do.  ....I just don't get you all.  I also heavily, heavily disagree with anyone who says the game was objectively better back then.  It wasn't.  It is objectively better now, and like I said above, I think a huge issue is that the knowledge we have about MMO's now is vastly different than what it was back then.  We can rewind the game to back then, but we can't rewind ourselves and the community.

My instinct is after the initial swarm dies out, there will be a group of hardcore players who stay into it.  There's obvious interest in this thing otherwise illicit classic servers wouldn't exist or people wouldn't legit be raiding in original Everquest, but I think that playerbase will be nowhere near as huge as the current flood of people playing.  I think people will get in, get a strong nostalgia injection, and then once that wears off start seeing all the warts you don't think about when you think fondly on the past.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Tweed on August 27, 2019, 10:16:02 AM
I wish I could fav Kharv's post like we do on Twitter. It perfectly sums up the situation.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: ghoselle on August 27, 2019, 10:33:22 AM
I pretty much entirely agree with Kharvek.

It'll sound weird, but the only things I miss from there is the old talent point system and feral&guardian being one spec.  I liked having more options -- and I'll fully admit this may be because purely because I was a bearcat who played with slightly less "optimal" builds that were interesting and let me have extra utility from other tanks.  And even then, if I could, I'd make that old system more meaningful.  To many of the choices were minor or filler but I think they could do a talent point system that was meaningful and interesting with they've learned.

But I miss the option of taking a tactically chosen less perfectly tank optimized spec to set me up to do much better dps, which let them do things like design tank encounters requiring various numbers of tanks (these days every fight requires a tank swap; and you have to always have exactly 2 tanks). 

And to be honest, I have little nostalgia for Classic -- I do have some solid nostalgia for Burning Crusade as it was such a better game than classic.  I loved Karazhan, Gruul, SSC and Black Temple.  (Even with Black Temple's anti-bear last boss mechanic.)  Gruul is where I proved bears could be tanks.  The max level dungeon in Hellfire was where I really realized I could be a good tank, after running it a lot with not good tanks and going and doing it with finesse.   

Black Temple had the council boss where I theory-crafted out a gear set and talent build just for that boss that made me unhittable*.  And that sort of "do non-standard stuff and be extra successful" is missing from the current model where everything is balanced so tanks are mostly equal and all the info you need i published in guides.  (* - pretty sure this is part of why stats are now on diminishing returns so you can no longer get 100%.)

And Bear theory-craft had a really active and cool community, and that has all died off because its just not relevant any more.  And I don't think Classic can bring that back.

Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Fallowgrey on August 27, 2019, 10:43:44 AM
Um, I just want to see the pre-Cataclysm quest lore on the Horde side that I missed out on.  And I'm willing to deal with stupid old systems and finding people to do it.  That is all.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Piralyn on August 27, 2019, 12:24:53 PM
I think back to the days of complicated rostering spreadsheets and complicate loot systems and all the drama that happens when you have 40 people fighting over 2 drops from a boss?  And who gets to do the day you know you'll kill the thing that has the stuff you want?  I don't miss that, I don't miss that at all.  Now I can show up Tuesday, whip up a group and if some people can and can't go, it isn't a huge problem.

You don't miss me haranguing Draeven about covering all the buffs in rostering so we could have even a slim shot at beating bosses in heroic Trial of the Crusader?
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Piralyn on August 27, 2019, 12:40:23 PM
I don't have time to play a game that gives you this tiniest of trickle of reward for the time I put in.  Levelling takes forever, rep grinds were absurd, and if you wanted to do anything fun you had to invest even more time to maybe get the proper resist gear to enable you to do the thing you wanted....and before that you needed to do the quest chain to do it, which all require all manner of things to do that require time, groups of people of varying sizes and more.  I have a hard enough time investing the time in WoW solo content in the modern game, I can't imagine going back to how it used to be.  I don't want to quest for 2 hours and look down and see "Oh, I made it halfway to level 25"  I don't miss trying to discern where to go on the map from quest descriptions at all.  I don't miss any of that.  If I want rewarding exploration/detective gameplay?  I'll play a different game.  There are games I want to play to be challenged by myself and WoW is definitely not one of them.

To an extent, the trickle of rewards is the primary thing I do understand. One of the big complaints about modern WoW is that leveling/etc doesn't really seem to give you anything. The talent point system and spell ranks and the like may be very minor rewards for a level, but they're still some kind of tangible reward. In modern WoW, things tend to get harder with each level you get up to max level rather than easier.

In modern WoW, I feel like I get fifty pieces of gear a week, none of which really matter and are promptly vendored/scrapped/whatever. In Classic WoW, most of the loot--once you got past the green of the Whale type stuff--felt like it mattered. Being one of the first Druids on the server with 8-piece Tier 1 felt amazing because it was "hard work" and a bit of a status symbol. Now I get multiple 430+ items a week and none of them really impact anything.

The amount of effort to get those rewards now vs then is vastly different, but I can understand the allure of being able to get some kind of reward at each step, even if it is basically infinitesimal.

Modern WoW feels much more like a social co-op game than an MMO/RPG. I'd argue it has more in common with a game like CS:GO or Overwatch or the like than an MMO like Classic WoW. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but there are undoubtedly some people who would prefer a trickle of meaingful rewards and linear progression to the waterfall of purples that are all mostly indistinguishable from one another type of game.

If the dev team takes some lessons about meaningful rewards and progression from Classic, great. I don't long for grinding/pickpocketing ogres in the Alterac Mountains for 40 hours for the gold to buy a horse, but it would be nice to maybe have the journey from 120 to 130 or whatever just feel like mindlessly filling ten bars with no rewards/changes for each one just to spend the next 18 months putting tiny shards and rocks into a neck for AP to get +5 mastery/crit/haste and +10 stamina once a week. I only hope they don't over correct if they go that route.

Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Snique on August 28, 2019, 11:53:02 AM
Quote
I honestly had a hell of a time finding people I wanted to play with and honestly a lot of the time I wanted to quest solo.

This, rather a lot. I played with Pygment a lot, yay, and I had a few people I found that I liked. But, like, last night my regular raid wasn't running so I PUGged into a random EP heroic run, killed a few bosses, had some fun. If that went away I'd miss it.

Quote
a slim shot at beating bosses in heroic Trial of the Crusader

Gods that place still gives me PTSD. That's where I sneezed and the tank died. Like, literally, in the seconds it took me to go through the human "ah-grab-tissue-CHOO-look-at-screen-again" the tank was dead. I nearly quit WoW on the spot I was so mad.

The "even out massive boss damage spikes" is one of the things I think we've learned about doing MMOs and don't understand why people want that back.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on August 28, 2019, 12:31:23 PM
Blizzard has upped the capacity limit on classic realms: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/maximum-realm-capacity-increased-august-28/275248/1

Some players had obviously been asking for this (because they can't otherwise play on their chosen realm, or perhaps on any realm of the right type), but it does pose a risk for when they want to turn off layering--and they've promised to do that before phase 2.  If the amount of player falloff between now and then is on the low side, a lot of servers are going to be like Tichondrius was back in the day.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Snique on August 29, 2019, 04:46:08 PM
I suppose it's unsurprising that the advent of classic has pushed up the price on WoW tokens substantially.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on August 29, 2019, 09:30:15 PM
Yeah, after a bit of oscillation it seems to have gone up from around 145K to around 160K, and that 145K equilibrium is itself up from the 125K equilibrium of a few months ago.  I'd speculate that the jump mostly comes from people resubbing for classic using leftover Legion gold, which should eventually ease up as people either leave classic or burn through their gold supplies.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Yharon on August 31, 2019, 07:41:13 PM
Did you lot ever create an Alliance guild for ER people on Bloodsail Buccaneers?  There are two Horde-side guilds that I'm aware of; Earthen Ring Remains and Resonance.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Kudger on September 02, 2019, 05:31:41 PM
So far I have to say that I am loving classic. I picked a Priest as that's what I played back then and am having a blast. The overall pace of the game is significantly slower than BfA but I'm honestly really enjoying it; I can hop on, play some music, and just relax as I quest and work on my professions.

Probably the most significant positive difference that stands out to me so far is how much friendlier strangers are and how much the game supports grouping up to get things done. Almost every play session I wind up running into people on the same quest, grouping up, and then we quest together and chat for the rest of my play session. Compared to BfA, the difference is pretty stark.

I also enjoy the old talent system that, when combined with the slower pace of leveling, makes every level feel significant. I had a more significant sense of accomplishment going from level 16-17 on Classic than I did going from 1-60 on my void elf in BfA.

Probably the biggest con right now is how crowded it is. Every so often I get to a quest that isn't designed for anywhere near the amount of people doing it at the same time, which can lead to spawn camping and draws out the quest for much longer than it was meant to be. I figure that will largely settle down as the "newness" factor of Classic dies down and fewer people make it to the higher levels.

So far, Classic is shaping up about how I expected it to, and I'm looking forward to continuing the journey.

On a more personal note, as a long time Classic supporter who was on the brunt of a lot of "Wall of NO" spam and harassment on the WoW general forums from people over the years, it makes me feel a bit vindicated to see Classic be as successful as it has been so far.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on September 04, 2019, 06:23:29 AM
Blizzard announced free character moves for Classic realms.  The NA list is:

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/wow-classic-free-character-moves-realms/284713/1

There are twelve source realms there, which I think is every one of the original 13 NA realms except for the RP realm (Bloodsail Buccaneers).

Every so often I try to experimentally log into Faerlina in the evening to see what the queue is like.  Yesterday evening the estimated queue time was three hours.  There's been no trouble getting into the RP realm, although its listed population does reach High on some evenings.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: psthree on September 07, 2019, 02:30:13 AM
Did you lot ever create an Alliance guild for ER people on Bloodsail Buccaneers?  There are two Horde-side guilds that I'm aware of; Earthen Ring Remains and Resonance.
So, Would love to find a Guild for me and the wife. Would prefer to be folks for DC as I've been with you all the most the past expansions.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on October 03, 2019, 07:50:46 PM
Interesting stuff about layering in this blue post: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/realm-layering-update/320767

The implication is that Bloodsail Buccaneers is running with two layers (and we'll be able to know for sure in the realm list), as I think are all of the original name-reservation servers.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Honorata on October 05, 2019, 07:38:29 AM
So, I'm surprisingly not playing because I've decided I love free time? But I ran into this kind of interesting retrospective on WoW in general now that Classic is out by Dan Olson/Folding Ideas and thought I'd post it here. It's for a more general audience rather than just for WoW players so it's not as nitty-gritty as we might like, but I thought the ultimate conclusions about game design and design preference between Classic and BFA were pretty sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RxQRswLAmI
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on October 07, 2019, 12:00:50 PM
Ion's latest video (which is otherwise about BFA) announced that in Classic, Dire Maul will become available next week (October 15).  This is being done separately from phase 2, so world bosses and the honor system won't be going live at that point.
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Snique on October 15, 2019, 10:19:22 AM
My father, who's (re)playing Classic, told me that gold farmers are back, with a vengeance. He said prices on gold were pretty insane - like a USD or more per gold for a while. Anyone seen this?
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Snique on October 18, 2019, 08:55:01 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo8ExFC6M2Y
Rhykker, quoting data from superdataresearch.com, claimed that Classic subscriptions effectively tripled the subscription revenue Blizz was getting from Wow. If I understand correctly, that means that about 2x as many people have Classic subs as retail subs. Even so it appears that Classic subs were below the surge that Blizz got when BfA released, however that's projected.

Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on October 22, 2019, 08:08:25 PM
Bloodsail Buccaneers was de-layered today.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/layered-realms-update-oct-22/340582
Title: Re: World of Warcraft Classic
Post by: Marco on November 20, 2019, 09:50:12 AM
Another revision to the phased content plan: AV, WSG, and elemental invasions will unlock on December 10.  The early introduction of AV and WSG might be a result of player complaints about the amount of world PvP generated by the honor system.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t//368940/1