Author Topic: Bear vs Protadin  (Read 2985 times)

ghoselle

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Bear vs Protadin
« on: February 26, 2010, 01:11:47 PM »
http://thebigbearbutt.com/2010/02/11/tanking-test-druid-vs-paladin-i/

I don't play a protadin, but I found this article interesting.  He talks a bit about how these two tanking classes compare, and has some mild insights in to the differences.

jsoh

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Re: Bear vs Protadin
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2010, 08:19:20 PM »
Disclaimer: Apertnotanky.

One thing that I found curious was the tone with which he used to describe some of the pre-req's for pally tanking. First you have to turn on RF. Then you have to choose a blessing. He might as well be complaining about how for druid tanking you have to make sure you're in bear gear, and then you have to cast Mark of the Wild.

The other thing that struck me was that like the ret dps cycle, paladin AoE tanking is exactly the same as the max threat rotation (cue Friga/Edalia to tell me I'm an idiot) - its 96969 no matter what you're doing. Bears may have mobile threat via swipe, but thats costing them GCDs that arent being spent maximizing threat on the main target.

Now. In heroics, thats probably not a huge deal given the AoE fest that they've devolved into, but I can see how that would be beneficial in (say) HoR or the ramp in PoS.

ghoselle

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Re: Bear vs Protadin
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2010, 11:15:51 PM »

The other thing that struck me was that like the ret dps cycle, paladin AoE tanking is exactly the same as the max threat rotation (cue Friga/Edalia to tell me I'm an idiot) - its 96969 no matter what you're doing. Bears may have mobile threat via swipe, but thats costing them GCDs that arent being spent maximizing threat on the main target.

Now. In heroics, thats probably not a huge deal given the AoE fest that they've devolved into, but I can see how that would be beneficial in (say) HoR or the ramp in PoS.

To be fair, a bear doing maul/swipe is generating 90% of their max theoretical single target threat on two mobs (and ~25% of max on the remaining mobs).  So the cost to be doing AoE threat instead of single target threat really isn't significant.

(At least according to RAWR, loading Aviel up and checking - it was 90.4% and 26.1% respectively)



And in his defense, I've had multiple cases where I've seen a paladin forget to put on righteous fury and then have several pulls were very squirrelly because of it.  I've yet to see that happen to bear. :-)

jsoh

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Re: Bear vs Protadin
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2010, 06:11:04 AM »
I'm pretty sure Cree's tanked bosses in cat gear before. :P

ghoselle

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Re: Bear vs Protadin
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2010, 06:13:25 AM »
I'm pretty sure Cree's tanked bosses in cat gear before. :P

But generally not in cat form -- and I sort of view righteous fury as bear form, not bear gear.

jsoh

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Re: Bear vs Protadin
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2010, 06:55:02 AM »
To be fair, a bear doing maul/swipe is generating 90% of their max theoretical single target threat on two mobs (and ~25% of max on the remaining mobs).  So the cost to be doing AoE threat instead of single target threat really isn't significant.

Upon further reflection, thats a very interesting point. I wonder what the percentage of max threat that a paladin does on mobs 2-4, and mobs 5+ just by using their normal rotation; I'll have to see if Rawr has that information somewhere.

Anecdotally, in the large packs of the Damned in ICC, even if I assist-follow Avi's target, its pretty common for me to yank aggro on one of the mobs (in your accounting, this is very likely to be mob #3 or greater). I dont feel that I have quite the same issue when a paladin is tanking those packs.

(this post has been brought to you by chain-spamming DS w/Seal of Command, and by the tasty, tasty floor of ICC)

Marco

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Re: Bear vs Protadin
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2010, 07:39:02 AM »
Paladins do have a reputation for having way too much AOE threat output compared to other tanks, especially warriors.

I'm sure the actual difference is like 4% and it's amplified by the Forum Whining Factor, though.

Edalia

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Re: Bear vs Protadin
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2010, 08:56:13 AM »
Apert, you're correct. For sustained single-target threat, Consecration is the 3rd best skill to use, and the best "9" skill to use. Our rotation doesn't really change for sustained single-target vs. sustained AoE, only for snap AoE (pre 2pt10) vs. snap single-target. after 2pt10, it's the same no matter what really, since HotR has out-scaled ShoR.
o/\o