Author Topic: Shadowlands  (Read 2780 times)

Fallowgrey

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Re: Shadowlands
« Reply #165 on: December 29, 2020, 04:44:51 PM »
Like Leah, I've been feeling OK with the loot.  Yes, I had 0 drops in raid.  But then, two of my 177 pieces got upgraded to 184 today, and the vault gave me my weapon token.  I can't do 12 M+ runs, but I did some, and while I didn't pick the vault gear, I did get one drop in my 4.

It's weird, the covenant set keeps coming back into my life, and there's two more level upgrades to it coming.  Unlike the class hall set, I'm actually using it, some week before last, none last week, two pieces this week.

It feels to me like Blizz wants time put in over some X amount a week to have diminishing returns, and putting more gear behind weekly reset actions (guaranteed but slow renown upgrades, vault) is their primitive, possibly stupid way of doing it.  You get the sense they don't want anyone except the craziest and the luckiest to have full 210+ in all slots until at least a month has passed.  Folks on a different time goals like myself are feeling like this pace is OK.  I'm glad not to do the part-time job; I can't.  4 hours raiding and 4 hours M+ing and 2 hours renowning; it's enough.  I'm sorry putting in more time isn't getting folks more stuff, but it's nice not to be totally behind and being yelled at when you just can't put in more hours.

Lowered expectations never feel good at first, but hey, Slack is Good (tm Church of Subgenius).
Alliance: Fallowgrey L60 Dwarf Priest / Evring, Nelf Druid / Arkibal, Human Paladin / Gayelette, Dwarf Shaman / Haikeebah, Pandaren Monk / Zelbinion, Worgen Warrior
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Piralyn

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Re: Shadowlands
« Reply #166 on: December 29, 2020, 08:21:28 PM »
I don't disagree conceptually with making it so pushing M+ doesn't feel mandatory for even normal/heroic raiding.

In an ideal world, all three loot tracks would be separate and comparable, with commensurate reward for effort.

The problem is that they've made M+ worse than even PvP for gearing, now, for significantly more effort. Some of the new affixes are just obnoxious. When the end result of even the highest keys is loot comparable to about a world boss drop and not even Heroic Shriekwing, it's hard to feel motivated to do it, and leaves you with very few options to catch up if you have bad luck in raids--and you don't have bonus rolls to help either.

The mistake last season was making M+--which was a lot easier with absurd corruptions--drop better than heroic loot for basically a majority of the group every single run. I think it's okay to have weekly loot get close to Mythic raiding, since that's going to be very sparse loot and still gives you something to do when Heroic raiding is complete, but having every run give loot better than Heroic raiding basically nullifies motivation for going to a heroic raid. Why raid for hours for a piece of loot, when you can do a 30 minute run and get 3 or 4 people better than Heroic loot in an M+?

It's the reverse now. Why spend hours running M+ for one person getting a sub-Heroic piece of gear every hour instead of Heroic raiding? If the loot's shittier, the content is harder, and the loot is rarer, why do it? That's my gripe. You're better off just PvPing because at least then can target a specific slot and upgrade it. Make it equivalent to heroic at the highest key levels and then at least there's a reason to chase. Now you're almost going to have to heroic raid to be able to do higher keys to get shittier gear.

Make it all the same (heroic) ilvl with variances for end bosses and end of week, give raids tier sets, M+ gets the ability to repeat it and have more varied gear available, PvP has PvP focused stats (versatility) and the ability to target slots. Everyone wins, people can do whatever track they want.

Marco

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Re: Shadowlands
« Reply #167 on: December 29, 2020, 09:15:32 PM »
I feel like I'm gearing up at a reasonable pace given the content I'm doing, and Piralyn has the same item level as me.  To be fair, Pira would be 1-2 item levels lower without the 210 legendary, since I've been cheap about upgrading my 190.  Tom is also gearing a second raiding character while I am not, and I think a lot of his bad luck has been on Lilyria.  And there was definitely some bad luck--the expected number of personal loot drops across 12 M+ runs is at least 2.4.

Perhaps they should have gone farther with the great vault.  While it is statistically more generous than the M+ cache, it seems like player expectations for it have risen by more than that increment.  But all of my ideas seem either very complicated (a currency that you can use to reroll a choice / force a particular slot / etc.) or very deterministic compared to most past systems (a chosen item each week).

**andius

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Re: Shadowlands
« Reply #168 on: December 30, 2020, 11:29:42 AM »
I feeling it is more like the Great Vault of Disappointment :(

My alt rogue did LFR last week and got some chest armor this week I open the vault and see the same item being offered.
I then did the next step of the campaign and replaced it :(
Andius(Ht60), Belandius(Pr50), Dalandius(War50), Drandius(Sh50), Elandius(R50), Vandius(M50), Deandius(DK50), Delandius(Drd50), Jinandius(Pal50), Shandius(Wk50), Kamandius(Mk50), Ishandius(DH50) Liandius(LF Pal(50) Venadius (Mk50), Klandius(Ht35), Diandius(R22) Mechandius (W50)

Piralyn

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Re: Shadowlands
« Reply #169 on: December 31, 2020, 08:12:25 AM »
I think there's a bit of a weird paradox with the vault and feelings of satisfaction/choice/reward.

With the old M+ cache, you got what you got, and if it was shit, okay it was shit and you had the bad luck. Now, if the Vault is all shit, then it feels extra bad because you lose like four times at once. If you have a great choice, it's amazing! If you have multiple good/great choices, then it's frustrating because you're leaving something behind. My first week was great! I had a high level Quantum Device or a decently high level weapon to choose from. I picked the trinket since hypothetically any weapon from any instance would be fine, and the trinket is far and away the best trinket. Since then, my choices have been pretty "meh" and I haven't seen a weapon from any content, but I did get another Quantum Device--so that feels bad but I understand it.

I would not have predicted that from the way the vault was laid out--or at least not to that extent. In BFA a lot of those shittier (and lower level) options were basically what you got from the end of runs, and youw erne't going to use them anyway, but at least the gold/crystal from the item felt like some kind of reward for the runs. It should average out in the end, but when it's bad, it feels a lot worse than the blind single choice of BFA/Legion.

Logically, it doesn't make a lot of sense that it does, but the brain is weird.

Leah

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Re: Shadowlands
« Reply #170 on: January 02, 2021, 09:33:53 PM »
It would seem that some folks have already unlocked the Twisting Corridors in Torghast through glitchy quests that had them a week ahead in the storyline. This all but confirms that Twisting Corridors will be released with this week's reset.
https://www.wowhead.com/news=320284/twisting-corridors-in-torghast-likely-unlocks-week-of-january-4th

Coincidentally(?), there's also a new cinematic that's been datamined, suspected to tie into the next level of story regarding Torghast. It has some new developments so if you're not into storyline spoilers, definitely don't go looking for it.

As one last aside, in server news, members of Valor achieved Realm First! Shadowlands Keystone Master, completing Plaguefall+15 in the time limit so grats to them.

Snique

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Re: Shadowlands
« Reply #171 on: January 12, 2021, 02:57:11 PM »
This week rolls out the first of the Torghast events.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23609149/torghast-beasts-of-prodigum-bonus-event-now-live?blzcmp=app

It's listed as a "bonus" event but no indication of what, if any, bonus it gives. I mean, yes, there are new anima powers but so what? Usual bonus events - like the WQ event you can get from Kah-Toll - give some kind of reward for completing the bonus thing.

jsoh

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Re: Shadowlands
« Reply #172 on: January 12, 2021, 06:47:15 PM »
Its just flavour. You get powers which give you a pet during the run, and then subsequent powers buff the pet.

Wowhead has a good article on the matter.