Author Topic: 8.3.x stuff  (Read 239 times)

Marco

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8.3.x stuff
« on: October 07, 2019, 11:54:30 AM »
Ion Hazzikostas video: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t//324398/1
PTR patch notes: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/visions-of-n-zoth-content-update-development-notes/324862
Class balance changes: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/class-changes-in-visions-of-n-zoth/324816
Auction house changes: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-auction-house-revamp/324822

* The patch title is "Visions of N'Zoth".

* The single-player or small-group content starts with assaults on Uldum and the Veil of Eternal Blossoms (and possibly other zones containing titan facilities).  Completing an assault grants access to a Vision of N'Zoth, which is a 1-5 player scenario centered around alternate versions of Orgrimmar and Stormwind. Sanity drain will force a retreat from these scenarios, but you will bring back Fragments of N'zoth to be analyzed by Magni and MOTHER.  Wrathion will help you with a legendary cloak, which is strengthened by analyzing fragments and helps defend against sanity drain.  This sounds a little reminiscent of The Deaths of Chromie, but as a central content feature rather than a side story.

* The new 12-boss raid is called Ny'alotha.  From a lore perspective, Ny'alotha exists all around us on the other side of a thin veil, so I would expect environments to make use of twisted versions of existing locations.

* For the Heart of Azeroth, there are new essences and a new slot in the neck.  The new neck slot has a diamond shape, distinct from either the major or the three minor slots; I'm not sure how that system will work exactly.

* Something will happen to titanforging, but they haven't announced what it is.  This comes from both a story perspective (N'Zoth is affecting our loot rewards by attacking the titan forges), and a desire to make harder content more rewarding relative to easier content.

* Horde are getting Vulpera as an allied race.  Alliance are getting Mechagnomes.

* Goblins and Worgen are getting heritage armor.  (Worgen heritage armor includes a top hat.  There is some possibility that these heritage armor sets were delayed from 8.2.5 purely to add the top hat.)

* There is an auction house overhaul, "to make it faster, more performant, and to get rid of those annoying single stacks".   Shopping lists have been added to the base AH UI. There are some nice UI demonstrations in the video, starting around the 15-minute mark.  It looks like a nice update, but I still wish they would add buy orders or market-making so that we could sell stuff (at least stackable trade materials) instantly, like we can with wow tokens.

* The new M+ affix is "Corrupted".  Obelisks will appear around the instance.  You can interact with them to fight a miniboss in an alternate-reality version of the instance, and when the miniboss is defeated, you appear wherever you are standing within the instance when it dies--so you can use these to do skips without shroud or invis pots.  If you ignore an obelisk, its miniboss will attack you during the final boss fight.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 01:48:07 PM by Marco »

Leah

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Re: 8.3.x stuff
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2019, 02:38:05 PM »
(Worgen heritage armor includes a top hat.  There is some possibility that these heritage armor sets were delayed from 8.2.5 purely to add the top hat.)

I'm pretty sure that Tweed would agree that that was a cycle well spent!

Marco

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Re: 8.3.x stuff
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2019, 12:39:54 PM »
The PTR is showing an early version of what is replacing titanforging.  There's no Blizzard feedback post on this yet, so I expect there's a bit more to the picture.  I also don't know if this is replacing warforging as well (meaning no more +5/+10 ilvl bonuses on items), or just titanforging (+15 or more ilvls).

The general idea seems to be that a drop which would otherwise titanforge will instead be "corrupted", giving it both a beneficial effect and an amount of "corruption".  The beneficial effects can be quite strong (like "increase haste from all sources by 4%") but the negative effects of corruption sound pretty bad.  They start off with a chance to be slowed when you take damage and progress to damage pools appearing under your feet (only affecting you), getting occasionally chased around by a Thing From Beyond, and finally to increased damage taken and reduced healing taken.

There are indications that items can be "cleansed", removing both the corruption and the beneficial effect.  I'm wondering if the legendary cloak will provide some amount of corruption resistance, creating a budget for corrupted items before you take any harmful effects.  Without that, I could see people tolerating a small amount of corruption (less than 40), but even just the random slow could be deadly at times.

Separately, the quaking affix will be buffed/nerfed.  It won't harm you, but will harm other people in your circle twice as much.  So if the group spreads out properly it's just an annoying interrupt, but four people sharing circles will all die.  wowhead also has more details on the Corrupted affix minibosses.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=295789/corrupted-items-is-the-new-titanforging-details-how-it-works
https://www.wowhead.com/news=295810/corrupted-items-corruption-debuff-breakpoints-and-scaling-of-debuffs
https://www.wowhead.com/news=295802/corrupted-items-list-of-positive-affixes-and-corruption-stat-ranges
https://www.wowhead.com/news=295801/mythic-season-4-affix-corrupted-details-how-it-works
https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-new-mythic-keystone-affix-corrupted/97541
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 12:42:37 PM by Marco »

**andius

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Re: 8.3.x stuff
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2019, 02:30:44 PM »
So far it sounds awful :/
Andius(Ht 120), Belandius(Pr 120), Dalandius(War 113), Drandius(Sh 120), Elandius(R 120), Vandius(M 112), Deandius(DK 113), Delandius(Drd 120), Jinandius(P 118), Shandius(Wk120), Kamandius(Mk 119), Ishandius(DH 120) Liandius(LF Pr (93) Venadius (Mk 71), Klandius(Ht 28), Diandius(R 24)

HeidiB

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Re: 8.3.x stuff
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2019, 04:53:10 PM »
The general idea seems to be that a drop which would otherwise titanforge will instead be "corrupted", giving it both a beneficial effect and an amount of "corruption".  The beneficial effects can be quite strong (like "increase haste from all sources by 4%") but the negative effects of corruption sound pretty bad.  They start off with a chance to be slowed when you take damage and progress to damage pools appearing under your feet (only affecting you), getting occasionally chased around by a Thing From Beyond, and finally to increased damage taken and reduced healing taken.
So you're saying that Blizzard hates healers.   ;)

Marco

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Re: 8.3.x stuff
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2019, 09:36:10 PM »
Here's the feedback post with some additional details: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/corrupted-items-details-and-feedback/341493

Most notably:

* The legendary cloak will negate some corruption, more as you level it up.
* This system replaces both warforging and titanforging.
* This system is only for this tier.

Looking over the forum feedback (some positive, some negative), the chief complaint is that this system is "too much RNG"(*).  I think the most notable difference is that while you currently want every slot in your gear set to warforge and titanforge, you will only want a few slots to be corrupted.  So something like 75% of the gear you wear will be just the base item from the loot table.  (Well, except for sockets, which are very strong and players know it.  And tertiaries, which are very strong but don't impact your DPS so players don't care.  But, baby steps.)

(*) This is a really common disconnect between designers and players in many games.  Designers know that if you roll lots of dice independently, it reduces the statistical effect of RNG on player power.  Players frequently zero in on how unlikely it is that all of the dice will line up in their favor at the same time, and see lots of independent rolls as increasing RNG.  I think ultimately designers need to meet players where they are on this issue even if players are wrong... though it's possibly only a vocal minority who feel really strongly about it.

Snique

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Re: 8.3.x stuff
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2019, 05:54:23 AM »
I hate this instinctively, and will probably hate it more in practice. The core problem, as I see it, is that the bell curve isn't equal. Imagine that you get a good outcome - the positive side of the curve. What happens? Maybe you kill the boss faster, but you were going to kill it anyway. Maybe the tank doesn't die in a situation where they would have anyway, but that doesn't mean you win the fight. In the overall scope of things, the impact of a beneficial effect isn't that impactful.

But on the other side? The tank dies where they wouldn't have otherwise? That's a wipe. The cascade effect is much larger. Even if both outcomes are equally likely, the impact is WILDLY disproportional. I assume that basically no edge teams are going to take corrupted tanks or healers because when you're in the single-digit percent of beating a fight you can't risk losing that slim edge.

I don't raid at that level, but even on the M+ I do run I'm often pushing to the edge of what I can do. I hate healing tanks who take that trait that gives you a health benefit until you fall below 35% at which point your health falls off a goddamn cliff. It doesn't happen often, but when it does it's usually a wipe.

DPS probably won't care. On the good side you'll be #1 on the charts; on the bad side you'll fall to #3 or 4 but the healers will save you anyway. :(

Piralyn

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Re: 8.3.x stuff
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2019, 08:02:43 AM »
Here's the feedback post with some additional details: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/corrupted-items-details-and-feedback/341493

Most notably:

* The legendary cloak will negate some corruption, more as you level it up.
* This system replaces both warforging and titanforging.
* This system is only for this tier.

Looking over the forum feedback (some positive, some negative), the chief complaint is that this system is "too much RNG"(*).  I think the most notable difference is that while you currently want every slot in your gear set to warforge and titanforge, you will only want a few slots to be corrupted.  So something like 75% of the gear you wear will be just the base item from the loot table.  (Well, except for sockets, which are very strong and players know it.  And tertiaries, which are very strong but don't impact your DPS so players don't care.  But, baby steps.)

(*) This is a really common disconnect between designers and players in many games.  Designers know that if you roll lots of dice independently, it reduces the statistical effect of RNG on player power.  Players frequently zero in on how unlikely it is that all of the dice will line up in their favor at the same time, and see lots of independent rolls as increasing RNG.  I think ultimately designers need to meet players where they are on this issue even if players are wrong... though it's possibly only a vocal minority who feel really strongly about it.

Yeah... I'm afraid this is A LOT of dice rolls and you will indeed need to line up A LOT of rolls to get it to actually not shoot yourself in the dick. Benthic gear was a bit of a chore to grind because of RNG, but at least you had some control by targeting slots and it being via a currency you could somewhat farm.

With War/Titanforging, yeah, there's a lot of RNG, but when it happens it's objectively good. There's not really a scenario I can think of where I'm going to be mad about a +5 or +15 level item dropping, other than maybe being disappointing it has bad stats for my spec and is therefore a waste--but I wouldn't have given a shit about that item in the first place. This, though? I'm not very enthused about the prospect of getting a 450 weapon or whatever after running a dozen dungeons, just for it to have reduced periodic damage taken and not be able to use it because the corruption effect will kill me on boss fights.

This system--at this prototype phase--basically gives you the possibility of getting the base loot you want but making it something you can't/don't want to use. I'm all for systems that introduce some variety and unique effects, but the chance of randomly proc'ing a shit trait that then also gives you a debuff that will make you more likely to die seems like a bad design.

Piralyn

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Re: 8.3.x stuff
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2019, 08:10:17 AM »
Upon further review, it looks like A) Weapons can't corrupt and B) You can purify corrupted items at the heart forge "without restriction"

Assuming that you can purify them without it costing much, that helps, but seems pretty contrary to their long running desire for you to "just be able to equip" the items you get.

jsoh

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Re: 8.3.x stuff
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2019, 10:08:29 AM »
Minutes since a notoriously cranky healer has put the raid group on blast because everyone's stacking corrupted items and wiping on bosses because of the side-effects: 0

Its like the sparklefeet trinket. But worse.

Marco

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Re: 8.3.x stuff
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2019, 10:01:48 AM »
Per a tweet from Ion, the random ranges are going away, so I think there will just be a table of possible corruptions with entries like "+2% crit, +10 corruption", "+4% haste, +20 corruption" etc.

I still see complaints about "RNG to get it, then RNG if it's any good" but since the effects aren't slot-locked, I don't think that's really the case.  Instead, you're semi-independently collecting (1) the gear you want, and (2) the corruptions you want, and there's a little puzzle in slotting together the corruptions you want up to your budget.  If gear you want drops with a corruption you don't want, you just purify it.  Since (according to the blue post) the target budget is 2ish pieces, pushing up to 4ish pieces towards the end of the tier, getting a good item without a corruption effect should be fine--more so than getting a non-warforged piece you want in the current system.  Sockets are probably more of an RNG issue than corruption effects.

There is a potential frustration to "I want this piece, and I want this corruption effect, but it doesn't fit in my budget until my cloak gets better, so I have to either bank it or purify it and lose the corruption forever (or push my corruption budget into a more dangerous range)".  This can be mitigated by holding onto non-corrupted pieces in each slot you wear a corrupted piece.

That mostly leaves the potential for people to push their corruption budget beyond what they can play around in a complicated fight.  I'm okay with that level of choice, but I can understand people being concerned about it.

https://twitter.com/WatcherDev/status/1187781236128808961

Piralyn

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Re: 8.3.x stuff
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2019, 12:55:57 PM »
Gonna be a while still

Quote
With the reveal at BlizzCon of the upcoming Shadowlands expansion, we’ve been getting a lot of questions regarding the schedule for the previously announced Visions of N’Zoth content update. To that end, we want to share that Visions of N’Zoth and the raid—Ny’alotha, The Waking City—will go live early next year.

Visions of N’Zoth is making good progress on the PTR, and currently with your help, we have been comprehensively testing the new content along with iterating on new systems like Corruption.

During the holiday season, we want to be considerate of all our players with the release timing of new content. Many guilds are still progressing through The Eternal Palace, and we want to give them enough time to finish the raid and earn their Cutting Edge: Queen Azshara and Ahead of the Curve achievements before opening the new raid. We try to avoid releasing new content tiers during the holiday season so that players are not encouraged to choose between progression and spending time with their families and friends. This also helps ensure us that we’re fully staffed to support any required hotfixes or turning issues that may emerge.

This will also give everyone extra time to enjoy the WoW 15th Anniversary event starting today, so you can play through the limited-time Memories of Azeroth raids and Korrak’s Revenge without having to rush through the festivities.

We’ll have more info on the new raid and content update in the next few weeks, so stay tuned to the forums and worldofwarcraft.com 17 for the latest news as we head into the holiday season.

Marco

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Re: 8.3.x stuff
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2019, 09:30:38 AM »
Some PTR developments (no blue posts for any of this, I think; numbers are likely to change):

* There is an item called Gouged Eye of N'Zoth which adds a socket to an unsocketed item.  Currently on the PTR you buy it from Wrathion for currency earned by running Horrific Visions.  Given the name, it could conceivably also (or instead) be a drop from N'Zoth.  It's unclear what the restrictions are; I would guess that the target item has to be a piece of BfA gear (not an heirloom) which could have dropped with a socket (not the Heart of Azeroth).

* There are a bunch of raid drop weapons which always have powerful, unique corruption effects in exchange for +25 corruption.

* Purifying an item currently costs a very small amount of the currency you get for running Horrific Visions.

* The Heart of Azeroth now adds 3% stamina at level 71, a new minor slot at level 75, another 3% stamina at level 80, and +1 corruption resistance per level at 85+.  (I believe this is in addition to some amount of corruption resistance from the legendary cloak.)

If you can add a socket to an item, and you don't want corrupted effects in most gear slots (especially with a weapon consuming most of your corruption budget), tertiaries may become the most significant RNG loot effect, particularly leech and avoidance.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=296234/wrathion-vendor-gouged-eye-of-nzoth-wicked-swarmer-vessel-of-horrific-visions
https://www.wowhead.com/news=296250/recent-corruption-changes-in-8-3-negative-effects-no-corruption-on-crafting-gear
https://www.wowhead.com/news=296223/heart-of-azeroth-updates-4th-essence-at-75-purity-of-the-worldsoul-infinite-trai

Marco

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Re: 8.3.x stuff
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2019, 11:16:11 AM »
The maximum mythic+ reward in 8.3 will come from a 15 rather than a 10, as has happened a few times in the past.  The maximum per-run reward level will be 465 (heroic +5) and the maximum per-week reward will be 475 (mythic).  Recall that warforging and titanforging will no longer happen.

No word on how mythic+ dungeons will scale up in difficulty.  I would guess a flat +30%, but 8.2 had a couple of surprises in that department.  However, 8.2 added the essences, while 8.3's power creep may not affect dungeons a lot.  (Although being able to add sockets to all of your gear could be as much as a 10% bump, if you grind those out.)

If the difficulty increase vs. gear increase is a net zero, players may have to do somewhat harder M+ content to get the same level of gear relative to heroic/mythic raid gear, depending on how the +10-14 rewards compare to +15.  But the top-end rewards at +15 are five item levels better relative to heroic/mythic raid gear than they are currently.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/increasing-mythic-keystone-dungeon-rewards/368067
« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 11:24:52 AM by Marco »

Marco

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Re: 8.3.x stuff
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2019, 12:45:42 PM »
* The Heart of Azeroth now adds 3% stamina at level 71, a new minor slot at level 75, another 3% stamina at level 80, and +1 corruption resistance per level at 85+.  (I believe this is in addition to some amount of corruption resistance from the legendary cloak.)
The infinite trait at 85+ is not going live, so after neck level 80, AP will be mostly useless (you'll get a few stats from the neck level increases and that's it).

Instead, you can increase the corruption resistance of the max-rank legendary cloak by getting an item "from defeating N’Zoth on Normal, Heroic, or Mythic difficulty, or from fully completing a Horrific Vision with at least one Mask active."  I have no idea what a Mask is.  I'm also not sure whether you'll only be able to get one of these per week or whether you can do both for two.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t//368183/1