Author Topic: Battle for Azeroth  (Read 2656 times)

Marco

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Re: Battle for Azeroth
« Reply #90 on: February 10, 2018, 05:01:09 PM »
In Bazeroth, it seems like many more physical specs' abilities will scale with attack power, not weapon damage, or at least they're trying that out on the test realm.  I'm not sure if the intent is to balance out how much each spec relies on weapon damage, or do away with weapon damage as a substantial contributor to DPS altogether.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=281764/battle-for-azeroth-class-abilities-scale-with-attack-power-instead-of-weapon-dam


Honorata

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Re: Battle for Azeroth
« Reply #91 on: February 10, 2018, 07:36:18 PM »
Important shaman update from current alpha build: Earth Shield seems to be coming back as a talent (it also seemed to be a talent option for Ele, which i guess is interesting?) also Tremor totem, and Cap totem as baseline.

also @Fallow:
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 07:46:03 PM by Honorata »
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Honorata

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Re: Battle for Azeroth
« Reply #92 on: February 11, 2018, 11:25:25 PM »
Okay, let's type up some notes from my alpha experiences. I haven't done any of the dungeons yet because the queues are, obviously, quite long, and the one time I tried to sit through one, I ended up crashing the game trying to Far Sight into Zuldazar and then didn't want to sit in the queue AGAIN.

Battle For Azeroth when?
Taliesin & Evitel said in their video about the alpha that they expect the release to be closer to the "no later than September 30, 2018" on the pre-order than not, and I agree with this. There are only two zones and two dungeons up on the alpha right now, and Drustvar still has a lot of subzones missing textures. A lot of specs are clearly in design flux (survival hunters), etc. So, I'd work with the assumption that that "no later than" date is probably... gonna be the date itself. I would not be super surprised if early-live BFA has that "rushed AF" feel.

Heart of Azeroth/Azerite
This is very hard to gauge on the alpha -- there doesn't seem to be any UI to show your Azerite progress right now, and so little Azerite dropped Hordeside I assumed it wasn't activated yet. Alliance-side there were actually leveling quests that gave Azerite, so I was able to level up the necklace a bit. Here are my thoughts so far:

* The necklace itself seems to start at 265 item level (more on item level later), and increasing the azerite level of the necklace also increases the item level of the necklace by one. (ie. a level 2 necklace will be item level 266 and so forth.)

* No quest rewards filled the chest or head slots in my questing in Drustvar or Nazmir, and overall quests didn't seem to give very much gear (and only for a few slots, repeatedly) so I suspect we may be seeing some early questing azerite armor in these slots to get us used to the concept, but it just hasn't been implemented yet. This is totally speculation on my part.

* It's hard to tell what rewards Azerite given the current state of alpha, but here we go:
- Just randomly drops when killing things. Sometimes I'd just get ~10 azerite or so off a random mob while questing.
- Some leveling quests in Drustvar (Alliance zone) gave 100 Azerite, so I suspect there are some quests in Nazmir which will have Azerite added in as their rewards later on.
- Random dungeon queue for leveling dungeons claims to give 35 azerite on completion.
- It's impossible to say if killing rares or looting chests gives Azerite, since at this point of the alpha, they're just dropping placeholder loot.

* Since there's no UI, I don't know the exact number, since I wasn't keeping track, but Azerite amount needed to get from level 1 to level 2 necklace seemed to be ~200 or so.

Item level Squish????
There's a stat/item level squish in BFA.

* Premade 110s on alpha start in 185 gear in all slots except the Heart of Azeroth necklace. This is likely roughly comparable to the gear on a boosted 110, since Legion beta premade 100s were essentially boosted characters in terms of gear as well.

* At 110 greens are 200, at 111: 208, at 112: 216, at 113: 224. Items that proc blue quality seem to be +10 item level. Assuming we continue with a pattern of +8 item level per character level, max level greens should be around item level 280.

* Non-tank HP seems to start around 14.5k at 110 at a 192 overall item level. My Horde monk, who didn't get any items from quests after level 111 hit 18k health at 113. My Alliance warlock, who got more gear from quests rewards is sitting around 19k.

* Harder hitting abilities are hitting for a few thousand damage at 110. Filler abilities hit for somewhat less, usually around ~400-500. Without mastery taken into effect, Healing Wave heals for ~1.6k at level 110. Healing Rain is ticking for ~150/tick no taking mastery into account.

* Generally, I'd say expect numbers somewhere between late Wrath and early Cataclsym.

So... what's the story like? Is it any good?
====VAGUE SPOILERS FOLLOW====
* Nazmir (Horde zone) is about helping the Zandalari try to get help from various loa to fight the Blood trolls. You interact with Bwonsamdi, Hir'eek (bat), Torga (turtle), and Krag'wa (frog). You meet and ally with the Tortollans. You meet a Titanic Keeper. There's some Old God shit. Storywise, this felt more complete than the Alliance zone. I suspect this zone may be the location of that troll/titan/old god raid that was teased.

* Drustvar (Alliance zone) has this whole European folk-horror aesthetic. Witches (who are a real thing, complete with Disney-evil-witch models) are hiding in plain sight and therefore some witch hunts ensue. You gotta fight the actual witches and help clear the names of innocents falsely accused of witchcraft. There are some neat new enemy models that have this whole Wicker Man aesthetic. Actually, the whole zone has kind of a Wicker Man (the good one) aesthetic. I haven't totally finished this zone yet. It appealed to me less than Nazmir but... Nazmir was a lot closer to Shit I'm Into. It's hard to top "Making a pact with a death loa who is definitely gonna screw you over in the future while hanging out in his awesome lookin REVIVAL!polis." Sorry guys.

====END SPOILERS====

* Overall, the Horde zone felt more finished from a story & art perspective (the cutscenes were textually storyboarded in Nazmir, in Drustvar you're just told that something cool will happen here before the next part of a quest. There weren't regions that were untextured in Nazmir, although there were a few temporary models), but the Alliance zone felt more finished mechanically (Drustvar had more quests that rewarded Azerite and items). Both areas have terrain/clipping issues and broken quests.

How many bug reports have you sent Blizzard on the alpha so far?
Easily 20.

Got any good screenshots?
I thought you'd never ask.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 02:11:24 AM by Honorata »
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Winston

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Re: Battle for Azeroth
« Reply #93 on: February 12, 2018, 05:49:58 AM »
Comment on vague spoilers:

Begin whining:
Witch-hunting in Dustvar is going to get some pushback from Wiccans. I remember, way back in Vanilla WoW beta, there was giant pentacle in Searing Gorge that they replaced with a more generic design by release. I always assumed they did this because Blizzard wanted to avoid any religious issues. I hope they wise up here as well.
End whining
Bill Seligman
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Honorata

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Re: Battle for Azeroth
« Reply #94 on: February 12, 2018, 10:34:17 AM »
Response:
1. I was listening to some videos where a guy dunks on the bad writing on the Game of Thrones television show while I did a lot of this questing, so I may have missed some of the exact details of this quest chain.

2. The actual "witch hunt" involves an innocent person being accused and about the be executed on the gallows and you stop them temporarily while trying to prove her innocence. You're eventually able to rescue her, and find out her family has a history of fighting corruption in this region and work together to find out what's going on for real in the area.

3. It seems to be heavily implied that the "witches" are not actual humans but genuinely something pretending to be human and occasionally acting as a corrupting influence on the humans in the region, and seems to largely be referred to as "witches" due to belief in evil witches being a part of the local vernacular. IIRC the further you go along in the quest chain, the less the term in used once it becomes clear you're dealing with something else.

4. The people whose families historically fight this bad stuff seem to also have occult trappings around them. (ie. you make potions, collect family relics, etc.) so I think it ultimately reads more as good witch vs. bad witch.

5. THAT SAID obviously if this reads super unpleasantly to you due to your religion, and I would recommend you look into the details yourself ahead of time if you're willing to do so/spoil yourself and giving your feedback on the subject to Blizzard, or to me to post to the alpha forums/in-game suggestion box. I am obviously not a member of this religion so it's difficult for me to gauge what is or is not offensive.

6. ALSO I had similar thoughts in re: some questing in Nazmir. Bwonsamdi is very clearly a WoW-style representation of Baron Samedi, an actual loa/religious figure in Haitian Voudoun and also some versions of syncretized Catholicism in the region. While ultimately I don't think it's significantly different from in-game representations of religious figures like Thor, Ra, etc. (all of whom are still worshipped by people in various strands of reconstructed paganism/heathenry), I genuinely don't know enough about Caribbean religions to know if this is culturally insensitive or fine. (The character obviously has some differences, but the inspiration is pretty clear.) I'm genuinely curious if the two zones they chose to put up are the two they most suspected may need re-writing for sensitivity reasons?
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Marco

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Re: Battle for Azeroth
« Reply #95 on: February 12, 2018, 10:47:48 AM »
Taliesin & Evitel said in their video about the alpha that they expect the release to be closer to the "no later than September 30, 2018" on the pre-order than not, and I agree with this.
Didn't the other two visible-to-the-public F&F alphas also start this way, though?  I remember running the Warlords intro scenario with a bunch of untextured terrain and placeholder text, and that was probably partway into beta.

That said, there are 236 days between February 6 when alpha began and September 30.  The combined alpha and beta period was 224 days for Warlords and 281 days for Legion, the latter including the 2015 winter holidays.  So releasing near September 30 wouldn't be surprising.  That possibility will become a likelihood if beta doesn't start before June.

Honorata

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Re: Battle for Azeroth
« Reply #96 on: February 12, 2018, 11:11:24 AM »
The initial F&F alpha for Legion was testing the DH class/starting zone, likely since that went live with Legion pre-purchase so it needed to be finished first. I didn't finish the zone (I suspect the untextured stuff was probably nearer the end of the zone), but there were definitely more class bugs/random errors on that part of the Legion F&F alpha.

There have been some people able to glitch out of the areas we're allowed into to look around (mage shenanigans, shaman far sight tricks, etc.), and the other zones do seem to be largely complete as far as art, although I think many have the same untextured situations in places. People were also able to glitch into the starting scenarios for each class for a period of time on the alpha. (The alpha right now is only the two available zones + dungeons, so it doesn't officially include the intro-to-BFA stuff to get you to these islands or to get the Heart of Azeroth yet.) They weren't completable, but seemed to be mostly finished in terms of art, and some objectives in them could be completed, so these are probably closer to done than not.

It's also quite likely that while the F&F alpha is a working/playable/"we're willing to have the public look at this" build of these testable zones, there's an in-house build that's further along in some respects.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 11:14:35 AM by Honorata »
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Honorata

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Re: Battle for Azeroth
« Reply #97 on: February 13, 2018, 01:19:23 PM »
New M+ affix datamined for BFA: Blight. Makes you do more damage/healing when not at full health. Interesting, but also profoundly terrifying to consider tbh
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jsoh

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Re: Battle for Azeroth
« Reply #98 on: February 13, 2018, 02:07:29 PM »
No Mitch, You got no healing in order to _help_ you, not because I dont heal rogues. Dont be ridiculous.

Honorata

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Re: Battle for Azeroth
« Reply #99 on: February 13, 2018, 03:11:04 PM »
So, here are my thoughts on Blight, having had some time to think about it, and why I don't like it, assuming we're not all reading what it does incorrectly.
* If it doesn't also come with a +health% for mobs, it's basically a non-affix for people casually doing M+ content. You could just ignore it and be fine.

* It discourages healers from doing their jobs, and depending on what tier of affixes it's on, may encourage no-healer M+ again. Healer damage just isn't high enough in WoW for this to be an appealing affix.

* It's potentially very interesting in the context of an MDI/timed race situation, though.

* Has potential for interesting play for people pushing high keys/trying to punch above their weight class, but at this point, survivability/abilities one-shotting people also becomes a possibility, so it gets fiddly

* Seems to target disc specifically as a healer that both prevents/lowers incoming damage and has trouble catching up when players get suddenly low health.

The INVERSE (You do less damage when not at 100% health) is potentially a much more interesting affix, although has the potential to seriously fuck tank specs like Blood where doing damage/self healing is a major part of their survivability, and I think would have to not affect healing because otherwise you could get in a situation where you could just never recover if you got low enough health as a healer. This version still targets disc specifically as a healer, though.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 03:17:28 PM by Honorata »
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Marco

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Re: Battle for Azeroth
« Reply #100 on: February 13, 2018, 03:22:07 PM »
* If it doesn't also come with a +health% for mobs, it's basically a non-affix for people casually doing M+ content. You could just ignore it and be fine.
The mmo-champion description is "Damage and healing done increased when injured, and reduced when healthy."  So I don't think you can just ignore it.

Hopefully it's mutually exclusive with grievous.

Honorata

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Re: Battle for Azeroth
« Reply #101 on: February 13, 2018, 03:56:33 PM »
Unless every healer magically grows Cleric Stance and does at least ~50% of the damage of a DPS in BFA, it's a bad affix because it discourages bringing a healer at all.
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Fallowgrey

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Re: Battle for Azeroth
« Reply #102 on: February 14, 2018, 06:31:20 AM »
also @Fallow:


8-O

No channel, either.  Not sure why they're letting it get reduced by Word-spam; at 12 minutes cooldown to start, even given a lot of Word casts, I doubt you'll get in a second cast, except on really, really long fights.  And don't you want to hold something like this until late fight craziness anyway?

Anyway, still awesome.  I hope the animation is good.  Angels everywhere.

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Marco

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Re: Battle for Azeroth
« Reply #103 on: February 15, 2018, 06:39:36 AM »
In Bazeroth, it seems like many more physical specs' abilities will scale with attack power, not weapon damage, or at least they're trying that out on the test realm.  I'm not sure if the intent is to balance out how much each spec relies on weapon damage, or do away with weapon damage as a substantial contributor to DPS altogether.
Apparently data mining didn't tell the full story here, as the formula for computing non-caster ability damage changed.  The new formula has been reverse-engineered, and it looks like all non-caster abilities will scale with (attack power + 7 * weapon DPS).  Another way to think about this is that all non-caster abilities scale with weapon DPS, with every 7 attack power adding one weapon DPS.  This seems similar to how Diablo 3 scales ability damage.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=281913/battle-for-azeroth-new-formula-for-calculating-ability-damage

Piralyn

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Re: Battle for Azeroth
« Reply #104 on: February 15, 2018, 07:08:26 AM »
In Bazeroth, it seems like many more physical specs' abilities will scale with attack power, not weapon damage, or at least they're trying that out on the test realm.  I'm not sure if the intent is to balance out how much each spec relies on weapon damage, or do away with weapon damage as a substantial contributor to DPS altogether.
Apparently data mining didn't tell the full story here, as the formula for computing non-caster ability damage changed.  The new formula has been reverse-engineered, and it looks like all non-caster abilities will scale with (attack power + 7 * weapon DPS).  Another way to think about this is that all non-caster abilities scale with weapon DPS, with every 7 attack power adding one weapon DPS.  This seems similar to how Diablo 3 scales ability damage.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=281913/battle-for-azeroth-new-formula-for-calculating-ability-damage

I think this is a vast improvement over the alternative (abilities all scaling off of attack power rather than weapon damage). As a Feral Druid for a bit this expansion, my major ability only scaling off of AP felt really shitty and like I was lagging behind as people started getting higher ilvl artifact weapons. I know Frost DK has some things that scale purely off of AP too, but it's not like the mission critical abilities. Standardizing this, assuming it also compensates for dual-wielding or whatever, will go a long way toward helping all classes scale relatively similarly.