Author Topic: Netherlight Crucible  (Read 442 times)

Marco

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Netherlight Crucible
« on: August 10, 2017, 04:45:57 PM »
I'll try to keep this top post updated with what people need to know about the crucible in 7.3.

* You can get it on week 3 of patch 7.3, which gives you a couple of weeks to get through the prerequisite quests.  I will link a good brief summary of the prerequisite quests when I find one.  I believe the unlock is account-wide.  Unlocking it is important for raiding, as it gives an immediate +15 weapon item level increase and more power as you unlock more of its abilities.

* Each relic slot is empowered with a short tree of abilities.

* The first row of the tree unlocks immediately and gives +5 item weapon level per relic.

* The second row unlocks at 60, 63, and 66 artifact traits for the first, second, and third relic.  You get a choice of a random light or a random shadow power.  These powers are usually procs, although one choice in each category is a flat stat increase.

* The third row unlocks at 69, 72, and 75 artifact traits for the first, second, and third relic.  You get a choice of three traits to empower, one of which is only accessible via the light choice and one only accessible via the shadow choice on the second row, none of which will be the same as the relic's base trait.

* You can preview a relic by putting it into the square slot, so that if the relic is a sidegrade, you can make sure that it's actually better than your current relic with the RNG tree abilities taken into account.  Previewing a relic prevents you from trading it to other players, so raids will have to decide who gets a relic without knowing what RNG tree abilities it has.

* Relic trees cannot be respecced; if you want to change your choice you'll have to replace the relic.

https://www.wowhead.com/netherlight-crucible-guide
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20759136229
http://www.wowhead.com/bluetracker?topic=20758616309
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/20979712
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 06:26:46 PM by Marco »

Marco

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Re: Netherlight Crucible
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2017, 04:57:42 PM »
Ion explained the reasoning behind the RNG nature of the crucible in a Q+A recently.  It's hard to explain and it's not really important, so I left it out of the top post.

Basically, each relic contains an index into a per-spec table to determine what trait it increases.  The item designers know what traits are preferred by each spec, but they can't make a relic attractive to all specs at the same time because they can't independently determine the trait for each spec.  There are also too many relic types and traits to itemize a relic of each type and trait in a raid tier (and if they did, the tier's loot table would feel really bloated).  One unfortunate consequence is that minmax players feel compelled to farm mythic+ dungeons hoping for a titanforged version of a relic with their spec's most favored trait, in preference to the relics that drop from raids.

It's hard to correct this admitted botch, and the developers have wanted to add some randomness to relics to smooth it out since early in the expansion.  The original plan was for 7.2 to simply add a random second trait to relics, but for reasons I haven't really seen explained, they changed their minds and scrapped that during testing.

Although the netherlight crucible feels even more RNG because there are five random things attached to each relic drop, it's actually less variable because of the choice element.  Giving you a choice of three traits in the third row makes it much more likely that you will be able to pick a favorable second trait for a given relic.

Marco

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Re: Netherlight Crucible
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2017, 07:06:59 PM »
Some notes on AP grinding requirements for the different unlocks:

* 0-60 traits: 18 billion (88 boss tokens at AK 43)
* 60-63 traits: 22 billion (65 boss tokens at AK 45)
* 63-66 traits: 49 billion (66 boss tokens at AK 48)
* 66-69 traits: 105 billion (64 boss tokens at AK 51)
* 69-72 traits: 234 billion (65 boss tokens at AK 54)
* 72-75 traits: 514 billion (109 boss tokens at AK 55)

Where "boss token" is those things that drop in Tomb once per boss per week across all difficulties and are currently worth 30 million AP.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 07:30:04 AM by Marco »

Winston

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Re: Netherlight Crucible
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2017, 04:17:24 AM »
What sense do you have of how much more "oomph" you get for each of these unlocks? For example, the 75-trait unlock requires 52 times more AP and 2.2 times the boss tokens at the relevant AK; how much more DPS can one reasonably expect from that level of grinding?

As a non-raider, what's a good way of converting from the metric of "boss tokens" to non-raid grinding awards, such as Emissary Quests? (I don't the need the DPS for raid encounters, but there are a couple of challenges I want to do that would be easier with more "oomph".)
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Marco

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Re: Netherlight Crucible
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2017, 06:38:58 AM »
The 30 million AP boss tokens are relatively hefty units.  A blue AP world quest currently rewards about half a boss token (16 million), or about 75% of a boss token (22 million) for nicer ones such as the ones on the Broken Shore.  I think an order hall AP mission also clocks in at about 22 million if you 200% it.  The Elite Strike AP mission is worth five boss tokens if I remember right.  Emissary rewards AP tokens are about half a boss token.

The powers granted by the first three unlocks can be offensive, defensive, or a combination of both.  A simple one (not necessarily the best) is +650 mastery and +1000 avoidance.  650 mastery sims at about a 1% DPS upgrade for my character.  Not life-changing but still significant.

The last three unlocks grant trait increases.  These also sim at about a 1% DPS increase for me, depending on the trait.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 08:00:53 AM by Marco »

ghoselle

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Re: Netherlight Crucible
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2017, 07:55:22 AM »
With ilvl 900 followers and 40 AK, an AP mission gives one token that is around 20k AP  (varies 18-22k) and a second token 20k AP if you 200% it - so about 40k total. 

You can probably do about 1-4 of these missions per day, depending on if you are willing to check in twice a day and if prioritize them over gold missions.  I highly recommend getting the phone app, as it makes checking missions much more convenient.  It has a much better UI and you don't need to run back to your order hall.

The elite strike AP is currently 125k AP at 40AK - so 4 AP boss tokens not 5.  If you have a fully level garrison and can 200% AP missions, you are generally better off doing those instead of doing the elite strike mission (both GR-wise and time-wise).  But if you can do both, its a way to get an extra bump of AP.


jsoh

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Re: Netherlight Crucible
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2017, 08:02:09 AM »
[The phone app] has a much better UI and you don't need to run back to your order hall.

In the main, yes. But the App is unable (or I am too dim to discover it) to allow you to use temporary +success items (golden bananas, Meatball's balls of energy, or the list) when launching missions. This may or may not be irritating to you. I strongly expect that this extends to other temporary items (the druid +vitality items etc..) as well.

**andius

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Re: Netherlight Crucible
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2017, 12:39:00 PM »
[The phone app] has a much better UI and you don't need to run back to your order hall.

In the main, yes. But the App is unable (or I am too dim to discover it) to allow you to use temporary +success items (golden bananas, Meatball's balls of energy, or the list) when launching missions. This may or may not be irritating to you. I strongly expect that this extends to other temporary items (the druid +vitality items etc..) as well.

This is my number one problem with it, if I could use the items it would be great.
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**andius

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Re: Netherlight Crucible
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2017, 11:53:49 AM »
From https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20758945934#1
Quote
With maintenance on Tuesday, we’re going to make several spec damage tuning adjustments. Given the nature of the class changes we made in 7.3, we’ve not needed tuning adjustments through the first two weeks of the patch. However, one change that is coming this week is a bonus to the item level of your Artifact weapon when you activate the Netherlight Crucible. That bonus has a varying effect on certain specs, because not all specs’ abilities scale the same with the DPS of their equipped weapon. This is something that we’d like to address in the future, but for now, we can deal with it via tuning.

Furthermore, there are a few specs that we’d like to outright buff.

We’ll implement the following damage increases on Tuesday to account for the Netherlight Crucible:

Death Knight - Frost +4%
Demon Hunter - Havoc +3%
Druid - Feral +2%
Hunter – Beast Mastery +6%
Hunter - Survival +5%
Monk - Windwalker +9%
Rogue - Assassination +5%
Rogue - Outlaw +6%
Rogue - Subtlety +1.5%
Shaman - Enhancement +3%

And as always, we’ll continue to keep a close eye on performance going forward.

The interesting part for me was

Quote
That bonus has a varying effect on certain specs, because not all specs’ abilities scale the same with the DPS of their equipped weapon

How can things not scale based on your weapon?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 01:01:36 PM by **andius »
Andius (Hunter 110),Belandius (Priest 110),Dalandius (Warrior 110),Drandius (Shaman 110),Elandius (Rogue 110),Vandius (Mage 110),Deandius (Deathknight 110),Delandius (MoonKin Druid 110),Jinandius (Paladin 110),Shandius (Warlock 110) Kamandius (Monk 110), Ishandius (Demon Hunter 110)

Marco

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Re: Netherlight Crucible
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2017, 04:11:34 PM »
As best I understand it: if you're not a caster, some abilities scale with weapon DPS and some scale with attack power.  An increase of 15 weapon item levels without a corresponding increase in the other equipment slots has a disproportionate impact on the abilities that scale with weapon DPS.  Depending on how much of your spec's damage comes from abilities that scale with weapon DPS, you may gain a greater or lesser benefit from weapon item level than another spec.

(Diablo 3 avoids this issue by making every ability scale with weapon DPS.)

**andius

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Re: Netherlight Crucible
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2017, 04:39:23 PM »
Posted the same question on the WioW forum and someone said

Quote
Some abilities scale with only attack power, some scale with weapon damage. Kill Command, for instance, has an AP ratio; the weapon damage on your artifact does not effect it, only the primary/secondary stats. Aimed shot, on the other hand, has a weapon damage ratio; Weapon damage is a combination of attack power and the dps listed on the weapon.

The only BM skills that actually scale with weapon DPS are cobra shot, auto shot, and chimera shot (which no one takes). Those together account for less than 30% of a BM hunter's damage breakdown. Everything else in the BM kit scales with only AP.

More than 90% of MM's damage is from weapon damage skills, with only a few talents (crows, black arrow) using an AP ratio.

Sad so it seems I'm going to end up being buffed to catch up then after a time falling behind to be rebuffed and then the cycle repeating /cry
Andius (Hunter 110),Belandius (Priest 110),Dalandius (Warrior 110),Drandius (Shaman 110),Elandius (Rogue 110),Vandius (Mage 110),Deandius (Deathknight 110),Delandius (MoonKin Druid 110),Jinandius (Paladin 110),Shandius (Warlock 110) Kamandius (Monk 110), Ishandius (Demon Hunter 110)

Marco

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Re: Netherlight Crucible
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2017, 04:45:58 PM »
That doesn't follow.  The Netherlight Crucible is unique insofar as it increases weapon item level without doing anything to the other equipment slots; a raid tier increases all equipment slots and therefore carries a much larger attack power increase along with the increase in weapon DPS.

Marco

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Re: Netherlight Crucible
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2017, 06:31:31 PM »
A few things to be aware of when the netherlight crucible unlocks tomorrow:

* You can't respec a relic (according to wowhead).  Before making a light/dark choice on the second row, consider which trait you will want on the third row.  This is less important for the second and third relics as you are more likely to replace those relics before reaching 72 or 75 artifact traits.

* Blizzard just rebalanced the light/dark abilities earlier today, so even if your favorite class guide theorycrafter was on the ball about simming those abilities to find the ones with the best throughput, that work will all need to be redone.  Holding off on choosing for a few days might be a reasonable option.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20759136229

Marco

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Re: Netherlight Crucible
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2017, 02:59:32 PM »
wowhead reports that they now have netherlight crucible light/dark ability recommendations for all specs.  The recommendations are in each class guide, but are linked from here:

https://www.wowhead.com/news=271687/netherlight-crucible-calculator-and-relic-trait-recommendation-guides

jsoh

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Re: Netherlight Crucible
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2017, 03:50:26 PM »
If there's one thing I love as a healer, is to have all 3 relics to be offered - in tier 2 - a choice between "do damage to do X", and "do damage to do Y".

Because as a not-disco priest, I'm renowned for spending most of my time dpsing. Wait...