Author Topic: 7.2.x stuff  (Read 3731 times)

Edalia

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Re: 7.2.x stuff
« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2017, 06:04:39 AM »
Sounds to me like more grind and if you are not running atleast one Mythic keystone a week then you are doing it wrong.

You got a lot less out of that post than I did. Your conclusion isn't incorrect, but the important takeaway is that if you're not doing everything you possibly can, you won't be far behind those that are. That's the intent, and it also implies that they won't be tuning the next raid for people with full artifacts.
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Marco

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Re: 7.2.x stuff
« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2017, 07:54:00 AM »
A fundamental problem with the AP/AK system, which I think Ion would readily admit to, is that it's so complicated that players don't always understand it well enough to react to it rationally.

In 7.1 you can be pretty far behind other players in power if you don't play a lot.  As Ion notes, a lot of players entered Nighthold at 35 traits while others (who typically ran a lot of mythic+ dungeons) entered at 54 traits, getting 10% more damage and a big chunk of extra stamina from their artifact.  But players may not realize how far behind they are on power; instead, they might perceive that they can max out their weapons in not too long and know that they definitely won't be behind then.

In 7.2, there may be less of a power gap between people who play a lot and people who play a little, but if players perceive that maxing out their weapons will never happen, they may imagine themselves to be farther behind than they actually are.  Instead of comparing themselves to where insane grinders actually are, which may only be a few traits ahead, they might compare themselves to a hypothetical player with a maxed-out weapon.

**andius

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Re: 7.2.x stuff
« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2017, 11:10:01 AM »
Until they put some real details in, the TL'DR is "we made mistakes and we are going to fix it"

Quote
But then we would inevitably tune around that completed power level, and other players would simply be playing catch-up the entire time.

Doing that would have been bad, as far as I see it artifact power level asks like a soft nerf to the raid (we get more powerful over time relative to the raid)
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Snique

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Re: 7.2.x stuff
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2017, 06:13:09 AM »
In 7.1 you can be pretty far behind other players in power if you don't play a lot. 

This, me, in spades. It's showing up badly in heroics now.

Also nothing about converting all the goddamn dongles to a currency :(

Marco

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Re: 7.2.x stuff
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2017, 01:53:15 PM »
The PTR updated and there is new information about AP costs and AK.  The new trait sink (called "Infinite") has 50 ranks and looks basically impossible to max out.  It grants a proc which increases your primary stat for ten seconds, where the strength of the proc goes up with ranks.  This is kind of a weird design which could go awry if players start getting many ranks in this trait, as a larger and larger portion of a players' DPS will occur within these Infinite windows as the ranks go up.

Binkenstein has a spreadsheet although the PTR graphs don't seem right--they seem to show what would have happened if the 7.2 system were live for the whole of Legion, not what will happen with an assumed release date and a cap on AP up until that point.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=260586/7-2-ptr-build-23623-artifact-knowledge-scaling-infinite-artifact-traits-new-emis

Marco

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Re: 7.2.x stuff
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2017, 08:49:41 PM »
A couple of bits of information came out about legendaries today:

* In the dev Q+A, Ion indicated that in 7.2 legendary drop rates would take into account the number of legendaries you've gotten which apply to your current loot spec, rather than the total number.  He didn't say how that new system interacts with bad luck protection.  But the upshot is that you should be able to get the first couple of applicable legendaries for an alt spec faster than you currently can.

* In a follow-up thread, Josh confirmed that you will likely be able to target specific legendaries, sort of, by buying a "Relinguished" item for the slot that legendary lives in and hoping that it procs a legendary.  Again, it wasn't made clear how that interacts with bad luck protection.  Relinguished items are like the Baleful items in Tanaan Jungle and are mostly intended as catch-up gear, but for players who don't need catch-up gear I guess they will also serve this other purpose.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753190241#9

**andius

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Re: 7.2.x stuff
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2017, 10:01:39 AM »

* In a follow-up thread, Josh confirmed that you will likely be able to target specific legendaries, sort of, by buying a "Relinguished" item for the slot that legendary lives in and hoping that it procs a legendary.  Again, it wasn't made clear how that interacts with bad luck protection.  Relinguished items are like the Baleful items in Tanaan Jungle and are mostly intended as catch-up gear, but for players who don't need catch-up gear I guess they will also serve this other purpose.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753190241#9

Very "sort of" while your target a slot it seems to be to be a double dose of /RNG. Once for it to get it to proc a legendary and the second for it to be the one you want. This is not a very good "fix", great for a catch up or getting one in specific slot but not a that good for targeting a specific legendary.
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Marco

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Re: 7.2.x stuff
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2017, 10:48:12 AM »
I think usually there are usually only one or two legendaries applicable to a spec for a given slot, and you can't get the same legendary twice.  So the presumably low chance of proccing a legendary at all seems like more of an RNG gate than getting the right one.

jsoh

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Re: 7.2.x stuff
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2017, 11:12:23 AM »
I think usually there are usually only one or two legendaries applicable to a spec for a given slot, and you can't get the same legendary twice.  So the presumably low chance of proccing a legendary at all seems like more of an RNG gate than getting the right one.

The concrete counter-example, that I suspect Andius was thinking about: "I'll buy a ring-slot doodad, in the hopes that I'll get the Life Cocoon ring. Yay legendary! Wait... Its Sephuz".

Fortunately, I already have Sephuz, so I'm "lucky" in this regard.

**andius

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Re: 7.2.x stuff
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2017, 01:06:40 PM »
I think usually there are usually only one or two legendaries applicable to a spec for a given slot, and you can't get the same legendary twice.  So the presumably low chance of proccing a legendary at all seems like more of an RNG gate than getting the right one.

The concrete counter-example, that I suspect Andius was thinking about: "I'll buy a ring-slot doodad, in the hopes that I'll get the Life Cocoon ring. Yay legendary! Wait... Its Sephuz".

Fortunately, I already have Sephuz, so I'm "lucky" in this regard.

I too was "lucky"
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Marco

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Re: 7.2.x stuff
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2017, 08:32:32 AM »
A number of cosmetic rewards, including pets, will require the Power Ascended achievement on one class or another.  To get Power Ascended you need to empower your artifact weapon and then buy seven more traits so that you have one point in Infinite.  (You don't have to buy the extra ranks of all of the old 3-rank traits.)  This requires roughly 150 million total AP.  At AK 40 we should be getting about 3 million AP for green world quests, so that doesn't sound so bad.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=260678/power-ascended-artifact-rewards-in-7-2-class-mounts-pets-toys
http://www.wowhead.com/news=260675/artifact-weapons-whats-new-in-patch-7-2

Marco

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Re: 7.2.x stuff
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2017, 08:05:42 PM »
In the latest build, artifact knowledge caps at 50, with a multiplier of 55200100%, which is 2208 times what we're getting today.  The AP cost to get from zero to Power Ascended appears to have increased to 187 million, but that's still only 338 base AP or two green AP world quests (at AK 50).  Of course, at five days per rank it will take us more than four months to reach AK 50.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 08:23:02 PM by Marco »

Winston

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Re: 7.2.x stuff
« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2017, 02:33:48 AM »
Has it struck anyone else that we're getting into some serious number inflation with AP and AK? "55200100%"? Come on!

If Blizzard does something like this in future expansions, I think they're going to "squish" the numbers somehow.
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**andius

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Re: 7.2.x stuff
« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2017, 05:56:32 AM »
It is their way of making how many Artifact traits you gain less due to the amount of time you farm AP, so if you are doing a little or doing a lot the most important factor in how much AP you are getting it your AK. At some point doing lots of AP farming will give so little VS time as to be pointless but when you gain your next rank in AK it will be worthwhile again.

From a quick look at the numbers if you were getting a trait about every 5 days your are still going to be getting a trait about every 5 days once the new system comes in until you have put one point in the infinite trait

Yes the numbers get big and quickly but even if they do the a similar system in a future expansion it does not matter as they will use a different currency and so could start at 1 again.
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Marco

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Re: 7.2.x stuff
« Reply #44 on: March 01, 2017, 07:21:26 AM »
Number inflation is definitely a weakness of the AP/AK system--trait costs and AP gains quickly get beyond the point of easy comprehension.  It's reasonable to expect Blizzard to extend the artifact system through a third raid tier (Argus), in which case we'll see even more absurdly large numbers before Legion is over.

We could imagine the same functional system, but where AK ranks shrink trait costs instead of increasing AP gains.  To preserve the current properties of the system, gaining AK ranks would have to reduce the amount of AP you currently have on your weapon and the AP awarded by items sitting in your inventory.  I assume Blizzard considered the two alternatives and decided that player psychology would be hurt more by the illusion of having progress taken away than it is hurt by seeing numbers rise into the stratosphere.

A possibly workable alternative would be to reset the point system at tier boundaries, so that when you empower your weapon in 7.2 the trait costs start back around 100 for rank 36 and the AK 25 multiplier drops to 100% to compensate.  I don't really expect Blizzard to do that for 7.2, but they might consider it for 7.3.