Author Topic: HFC - The Black Gate (Archimonde)  (Read 813 times)

Edalia

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Marco

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Re: HFC - The Black Gate (Archimonde)
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2015, 03:52:06 PM »
We've gotten Archimonde down once on normal, and it was pretty tough.  Here are the strategy adjustments we needed to make:

* For phase 1, we tried moving around the edge of the room (which seems to be the dominant strategy from videos) and a ping-pong strategy where you bounce between predefined points for each allure of flames.  Ping-pong seemed to work better for us.  We used two melee positions about 50 yards apart, and parallel ranged positions about 20 yards behind them.  Doomfire targets kite the fire in a loop around the outside.  Depending on raid DPS, there can be an awkward time after the second Allure where Archimonde holds onto his shadowfel burst until after he summons a doomfire (so the raid is spread out when the doomfire picks a fixate target), but it's not too hard to adjust to with practice.

* For phase 2, we kill off any remaining doomfire and have the ranged close into the melee, still ping-ponging between the two melee positions for each allure.  Wrought/focused chaos targets move slightly out of the raid and point the ray sideways or away from the group, which is the normal strategy.  This was never a terribly difficult phase for us; when we had problems, it was usually from people taking too many stacks of doomfire while moving for allure.  Announcing allures several seconds in advance so people can move to the inner edge of the group fixed that.

* The beginning of phase 3 isn't hard.  The first banish gets run to a point on the outside of the room and the first team goes in; we sent in five people (three DPS) for a 15-person raid.  The boss is dragged to the center of the room, around 50 yards from the center of the tear.  We appoint a ranged DPS who isn't on a banish team to stand near the first nether tear and snare/kill the adds which come out.

* The hard part starts when the boss hits 25% and the first rain of chaos happens.  A non-obvious point of strategy is that you don't really have to dodge out of the rain of chaos impact points; it's better to stand still, use minor defensive and raid healing cooldowns, and maximize DPS.  We tried several strategies for dealing with the infernals, but mostly settled on a free-for-all with maybe a couple of people trying to keep aggro on one infernal each to make sure they don't heal each other.  They hit fairly hard on a DPS but it can be healed through.  We generally wind up letting some nether tear adds get through while killing the first infernals.  We hit heroism after the first set of infernals is dead.

* The second banish happens around the 25% mark, perhaps a bit before.  We run it to a point along the edge next to the first nether tear, ideally chosen so it's not too long of a run.  Getting the second banish team in was a bit of a pain point for us, so calling out this banish with plenty of warning is useful.  It's nice if the boss doesn't get moved too much out of position so the raid doesn't lose too much DPS during this process.  We appoint a second ranged DPS to stand next to the second nether tear and snare and kill the adds.

* When the third banish happens, we send in a suicide squad of just three people (tank, one healer, and one DPS).  We run the third banish to a point in between the first two nether tears (making an equilateral triangle); again, it's important to announce this banish in advance so no one misses the target, as the boss heals by 5% if fewer than three people go in.  This banish starts a clock; we have to win before the fourth banish or we have no tanks.  Three nether tears is really hard to keep up with anyway.  When the second rain of chaos happens, we ignore the infernals burn the boss (also ignoring nether tear adds).  This spawn starts a second parallel clock; the infernals will wipe the raid after being alive for 35 seconds, so we have to win before then or very shortly after.

* Inside the twisting nether, with five-person groups, it seemed to generally be more reliable to commit to killing two small adds than to try to beat the second add.  It depends a lot on the DPS composition, though.

With this plan, we win if nothing goes wrong in phase 3: nobody dies during the first infernals (or maybe one person if we res them quickly), nobody misses their banish, nobody dies inside the twisting nether except the suicide squad, and nobody dies too quickly during the second rain of fire.  We had an unfortunate number of wipes around the 2% mark because of one too many things going wrong.

I think it's possible to send in a real team for the third banish and expect to kill the boss with four active nether tears.  It's probably more manageable in a larger group; in a group of our size, you start running out of ranged DPS to assign to add management.

Snique

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Re: HFC - The Black Gate (Archimonde)
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2015, 06:59:04 AM »
One of the groups I'm running with is having all kinds of trouble with the third phase due to infernals getting loose, and/or stacking and/or aggroing on healers.  What's the most reliable way to deal with them?  (Assume you've got 20+ non-elite raiders running around.)

Marco

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Re: HFC - The Black Gate (Archimonde)
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2015, 07:22:50 AM »
The basic rules seem to be:

* DPS should open up on infernals as soon as possible, and not panic if they get aggro.  Infernals don't hit that hard.
* The tank should not try to taunt them (at least not more than one).
* Healers should not stand too close to the tank.

If that's not sufficient, you can assign particular players to taunt one (distracting shot, DPS warriors in defensive stance, etc.) and keep it separate.  Getting straight which infernal goes to which DPS can be difficult since they can spawn all over the place, but there are only three infernals so you don't have to do a great job.

The infernals can be kited in a variety of ways, but kiting can be a bad idea if it brings them out of range of other DPS.  If hunters are grabbing them, they can disengage/slow as a panic measure if they get low on health from the melee hits.

Honorata

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Re: HFC - The Black Gate (Archimonde)
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2015, 07:46:53 AM »
Aggroing on a healer isn't the end of the world as long as they don't all aggro on the same healer. You'll usually want the tank to taunt one of them over to the boss, and then one of your DPS should collect another one to pull it away. Third will usually be on a healer. (If one didn't aggro on me with BCP, I'd usually taunt one out of the pack as an HPal.) You may want to come up with an on the fly marking system to get DPS focused on specific infernals to get them dead quickly, although this didn't end up being useful for TRR/BCP.

Healers should be using cooldowns during the rain when infernals spawn, and some of that should still be active when infernals are wailing on people (especially if you use the ring for infernals) -- you'll probably get 2-3 sets of infernals, so you may want to plan ahead which to use when. DPS should be using personals during the rain so they're not low health when infernals are being killed.

You also may want to look at how many people you're sending into nether tears relative to your group size -- you may only need 4 if you're running a group size closer to 10m, leaving more people outside to deal with infernals. This really depends on what kind of DPS you've got though.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 07:49:26 AM by Honorata »
WoW: Keana | Neraati | Honorata | Coriandra | Naian
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Snique

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Re: HFC - The Black Gate (Archimonde)
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2015, 11:29:14 AM »
Does 4 DPS for 10 scale to 8 DPS for 20-person group sizes?

Fluffy et al's team got its first normal Archi kill last night but I keep feeling like we're sending either too many or too few people.

Also, other than DO MOAR DPS is there a way to avoid needing a suicide squad?  Or is that just a f-you feature of this fight?

jsoh

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Re: HFC - The Black Gate (Archimonde)
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2015, 11:46:25 AM »
Does 4 DPS for 10 scale to 8 DPS for 20-person group sizes?

Thats 4 people, including the tank, not 4 DPS. On our Archie kill on Sunday, each nether team was 1xtank, 2xdps, 1xhealer for a raid size of 14. YMMV, but the metric we're using is "enough dps so that nether teams have to kill no more than 2 little adds". Healing inside the nether realm isn't stupendously bad, so if you have a dps with excellent off-heal characteristics (ie. zap shaman with that dps->heal talent, or a boomkin with Natures Vigil, or a spriest w/VE, or...) then you can swap the healer for a deeps and get better performance.

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Also, other than DO MOAR DPS is there a way to avoid needing a suicide squad?  Or is that just a f-you feature of this fight?

You don't *have* to send a suicide squad. I'm almost positive that BCP killed N Archie without one. TRR's usage of a suicide squad was more predicated on the 3rd banish occurring when the boss was something like < 5-10% health, and it made more sense to zerg Archie, than to handle mechanics anymore. Well. That and it was happening roughly coincident with the 2nd wave of infernals, so the calculation was also "kill the boss before infernals explode" being preferable than the attrition that may occur from another banish cycle.

If Archie's health is too high (for some value of "too high") when a banish occurs, then its a totally acceptable approach to just handle it like normal. MOAR DPS helps things, but more in a generic "make the fight shorter" kinda way.

Marco

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Re: HFC - The Black Gate (Archimonde)
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2015, 12:41:10 PM »
Now that the nether tears don't generate living shadows in normal mode, it's probably simpler to just keep sending in alternating banish teams until you win.

Some groups like to send in large banish teams to get through the mechanic more quickly; others (including mine) gravitate towards sending in the bare minimum.  If a third small add is spawning, your banish team is too small, or needs people on the higher end of the DPS spread.