Author Topic: Warlords tier 17 raid preparation  (Read 1832 times)

Marco

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Warlords tier 17 raid preparation
« on: November 06, 2014, 08:07:30 PM »
Here are some notes on preparing for the first tier of raiding in Warlords.  It's a long post, but that doesn't mean that you'll have to go to a lot of effort to get ready.

Probably the most "mandatory" activity will be the legendary ring quest, as the ring will provide a significant boost even in BIS gear down the line.  You can start it at level 98 by talking to Khadgar's Servant in your garrison.  This stage of the legendary quest line mostly involves running some heroic dungeons and acquiring some Apexis crystals, with one raid quest in Highmaul at the end (after you get your ilvl 680 epic ring).  Patch 6.1 will likely add additional steps.  See this wowhead guide for details.

The next most important job is earning your three extra rolls per week.  You can turn in gold, apexis crystals, garrison resources, or honor for these.  You can get one free per week with the dwarven bunker, and occasionally another from the Drov the Ruiner follower mission.

As always, you'll want to enchant and gem your gear and bring appropriate consumables.  Only weapons, necks, cloaks, and rings need to be enchanted, and gem slots will be less common than in the past.  Consumables include flasks, food, DPS or mana potions, and healing potions.  Healthstones can take the place of healing potions although they aren't quite as powerful.

Your garrison's follower missions will eventually award a few gear upgrades near the end of the tier.  See the cookie-cutter garrison guide if you want to maximize your odds at these, but keep in mind that the benefit is probably not all that significant, and will probably come in when you're done with progression in this tier or nearing the end of it.

That leaves early gearing.  See this chart for how different sources of gear stack up, and this guide which contains a slot-by-slot breakdown of gear options.  The design intent is as follows:

* If you are part of an organized raid group right from the start, you will want to start in heroic dungeons for 630 gear, and maybe do the daily challenge mode for a chance at 640 gear.  From there you can move into normal-mode and/or heroic-mode raiding when they open, and can ignore all of the other sources of intermediate epics.  This is the first time we will have an introductory difficulty in the first raid tier, so it shouldn't be as important to be geared to the teeth going in.

* If you are not part of a raid group but want to be, or are playing a raid-ready alt, you will want to look into those intermediate epics so that you don't fall too far behind on gearing.

* If you are only interesting in playing casually and seeing the content, you can go directly from normal-mode dungeons to LFR and skip everything else, including heroic dungeons.  Or if you don't want to do LFR, you can progress slowly on non-raiding epics.

There are many sources of intermediate epics.  The common theme is that they take a while to get--long enough that organized raiders will likely have better gear from raid drops.  Also, most of them can't be warforged or have gem sockets or tertiary stats.  They are:

* You can get an item level 640 hat by running the Molten Core anniversary LFR once.

* You can earn apexis crystals through daily quests from your garrison town hall, through garrison work orders, or just grinding them out slowly from level 100 mobs.  Apexis crystals can be used to buy item level 630 gear.  When Highmaul opens on Dec 2, you can upgrade this gear to item level 645 with more crystals.  When Foundry opens in a few months, you can upgrade it again to item level 655 with even more crystals.  Apexis gear only exists for the head, back, wrist, hand, waist, and leg slots.

* Crafted epics begin at item level 640 and can be upgraded to 655 and 665 (weapons are 10 item levels lower).  These will be slow to make since they use time-limited materials, and you can only use three at a time.  They are not bind-on-pickup, so you can buy them from the auction house or make them on alts.

* There are item level 665 BOEs.  You can get these from the garrison salvage yard, from lucky random drops, or from the auction house.

* Periodically your garrison will be invaded.  If you earn a gold victory when defeating a garrison invasion, you'll get a shot at an item level 645 epic.

* Two world bosses (Drov and Tarina) will become available when Highmaul opens, alternating weeks.  They drop item level 650 gear.  When Foundry opens, Rukhmar will become available, dropping item level 665 gear.

* LFR will open in wings over time.  Highmaul wings of LFR will drop item level 640 gear; Foundry wings will drop item level 650 gear and item level 655 set pieces with weaker set bonuses.  Drop rates from LFR should be about twice as high as they were in Mists.

* If you are into PvP, conquest gear is item level 660 in PvE.  Honor gear is only item level 620 in PvE.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 02:45:43 PM by Marco »

Honorata

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Re: Warlords tier 17 raid preparation
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2014, 03:45:54 PM »
* If you are into PvP, conquest gear is item level 660 in PvE.  Honor gear is only item level 620 in PvE.

Quick aside that currently, honor can be extremely easy to come by in Ashran (through PvE bonus objectives, PvE/PvP events off the main road, turning in fragments to help summon Fangraal/whatever the Horde's summonable is called [fragment:honor = 1:1 ratio], and if your faction is currently controlling the zone, killing the High Warlord/Grand Marshal), so a few pieces of honor gear can help get a fresh 100 ready for heroics or LFR if dungeons are being stingy with loot.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 03:48:33 PM by Honorata »
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Marco

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Re: Warlords tier 17 raid preparation
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2014, 09:30:04 PM »
A hotfix today makes stage 2 apexis gear (item level 645) available now, and stage 3 apexis gear (item level 655) available when Highmaul opens.  See this chart for how that fits into the picture.  Stage 2 gear requires stage 1 gear to buy, so the cheapest pieces cost a total of 12K crystals.

This doesn't change things much unless you're going to farm apexis crystals off mobs, which is slow.  (Apparently in the best farming spot and no competition, you can maybe do 1.5K per hour, but that sounds mind-numbing.)  From just the daily quest, you won't be able to buy more than one piece before Highmaul opens, and probably not more than one or two stage 3 pieces before Foundry opens.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 06:31:32 AM by Edalia »

jsoh

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Re: Warlords tier 17 raid preparation
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2014, 11:17:50 AM »
http://www.wowhead.com/news=244538/guide-to-getting-the-ilvl-610-gear-requirement-for-heroic-dungeons-in-warlords-o

Repeats much of what Marco had previously posted (but in handy tabular form, with links), but also includes the list of Rare spawns which drop 620 loot for each armour type + accessory slot in one aggregated spot.

Honorata

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Re: Warlords tier 17 raid preparation
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2014, 09:24:57 PM »
Apparently in the best farming spot and no competition, you can maybe do 1.5K per hour, but that sounds mind-numbing.

I've been unable to zone into my garrison to pick up/turn in the daily apexis quest for two days now, so I may have to end up doing this to get caught up on the ring quest. Is the best spot still in a group at The Pit? Or is there a better farm spot?
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Marco

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Re: Warlords tier 17 raid preparation
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2015, 07:49:40 PM »
Here are some notes on the economics of consumables and enchants.  Costs are based on mats; buying the finished products may cost more.  For a baseline comparison point, dying costs about 25g at this gear level.

* Flasks: small flasks take eight herbs (4g).  Big flasks take 1 catalyst and 1/5 of a sorcerous thing on top of that (8g).  Definitely worth using.  Small flasks provide about a 1000 dps increase, big flasks about 1250 dps.

* Potions: about 1.5g apiece.  Over a six-minute fight, double-potting adds about 700 dps at a cost of 3g per pull.  Using them effectively requires a pull countdown and a keybinding, but economically these are very worthwhile.

* Weapon enchants: cheap DPS is about 350g.  Tank and healer enchants are about 1100g.  Expensive DPS is about 5500g.  My simulations show the cheap DPS enchant adding about 500 dps and the expensive ones also about 500 dps, which would make them pointless, but it may vary a lot by spec.

* Neck/cloak/ring enchants: cheap ones are about 70g; expensive ones are about 1400g per item.  The expensive neck enchant adds about 70 dps relative to the cheap one; the expensive ring enchants about 40 dps per ring.  The expensive cloak enchant adds +10% speed.  The speed bonus is probably worth the cost on a decent cloak, but the other expensive enchants might not be until you get an item you won't replace for a while.

* Gems: cheap ones cost about 6g and add about 70 dps.  Expensive ones cost about 100g plus several days' worth of BOP time-limited mats and add about 100 dps.  Expensive gems seem to go for 1000-3000g on the auction house due to the large taladite crystal cost, so for an extra 30 dps you may want to hold off unless the socket is on an item you won't replace for a while.

* Food: savage feasts are easy to produce, cost less than 5g on the auction house, and feed the whole raid.  They add about 200 dps.  Using them is a no-brainer.

* Augment runes: these add about 250 dps.  They are pricey to use at 50-100g per pull (based on AH prices I've seen) but can be useful on tight DPS checks.

* Healing items: warlock healthstones heal about 50K health; healing tonics heal about 70K.  Materials for healing pots run 7-8g apiece, but they also come from Blingtron gifts and auction for only 5-7g typically.  So, buy these rather than crafting them, or settle for healthstones.  You can use at most one per boss pull.

Assumptions: herbs and ore cost about 0.5g.  Alchemical catalyst costs around 2g.  Sorcerous stuff costs around 10g, except earth which is 40g.  Crystals cost about 350g.  1 point of primary stat adds about 5 dps.  1 point of a chosen secondary stat adds about 2 dps.

(At the time of this writing, alchemical catalyst prices have been weird--they popped up from 1.5g to 45g and have been falling slowly back down.  I think the steady state will be less than 2g again.)
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 07:12:37 PM by Marco »

HeidiB

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Re: Warlords tier 17 raid preparation
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2015, 05:35:56 AM »
Using [potions] effectively requires a pull countdown and a keybinding...
I'm doing it wrong.  Is clicking on my action bar almost as good as a keybinding?

Also, how do (Draenor) fish feasts compare to savage feasts?  I should be able to produce those by the time TRR grinds down its current stockpile of feasts.

Marco

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Re: Warlords tier 17 raid preparation
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2015, 08:26:03 AM »
Key-binding everything you do during combat will tend to improve DPS a little, but it requires a lot of prep time.

Cooking feasts give only +75 of your best secondary stat, while savage feasts give +100.  Cooking seems almost entirely irrelevant in this expansion (unless they change it).

I forgot to talk about gems in my post; that's been fixed.  I also want to talk about healing pots vs. healthstones, but will do that later.

Honorata

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Re: Warlords tier 17 raid preparation
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2015, 12:17:04 PM »
Cooking seems almost entirely irrelevant in this expansion (unless they change it).

Cooking right now is mostly only useful if you want to eat a different stat than what the feast would give you. (ie. if as holy I had enough crit I was crit capped for holy shock, I would probably want to eat personal haste food because the feast would give me a crit buff. I believe some tanks prefer to eat stamina food and the feast only gives secondaries.)

As far as keybinding potions go, Heidi, I usually click my pre-combat pot, and have the one I use in combat macro'd to a cooldown unless we're all planning to use potions together at a certain time.

edit I'm just going to keep editing this post like an asshole.

* Weapon enchants: cheap DPS is about 350g.  Tank and healer enchants are about 1100g.  Expensive DPS is about 5500g.  My simulations show the cheap DPS enchant adding about 500 dps and the expensive ones also about 500 dps, which would make them pointless, but it may vary a lot by spec.
This is very spec specific. Some healers already benefit more from using a secondary stat enchant over a spirit one. (I see a lot of druids, discs, and mistweavers using their preferred secondary instead when I armory stalk people from the forums.)

As far as DPS goes, the bleed enchant can be very close to or even better than the expensive enchant for some specs, while for others the expensive enchant is far and away superior. (The mastery weapon enchant is a major upgrade over the bleed enchant for me as ret. Meanwhile, for a frost mage or enhancement shaman, while the secondary stat enchant is better, it's not by a significant amount.)
« Last Edit: January 03, 2015, 07:49:09 PM by Honorata »
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Honorata

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Re: Warlords tier 17 raid preparation
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2015, 03:29:05 PM »
Apert and I were talking and he helpfully pointed out that in general (possibly barring specs with +dmg to bleeds?), the bleed enchant is better the crappier your gear is/worse the better your gear is, since it's a flat damage done thing.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 03:36:16 PM by Honorata »
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Snique

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Re: Warlords tier 17 raid preparation
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2015, 05:46:06 AM »
Marco, I'm confused about your baseline:
Quote
Gems: cheap ones cost about 6g and add about 70 dps.  Expensive ones cost about 100g plus several days' worth of BOP time-limited mats and add about 100 dps.

Is that 100 dps over no-gem or 100 dps over the 70 of a cheap gem?  If it's the former then it seems like the big gems are really not worthwhile.

For tanks, is anyone else using the engineering shield consumable as a pre-pot? They are dead cheap to make. It uses the potion cooldown but it absorbs all damage whereas pre-potting with an armor pot only absorbs the physical.  I'm not sure how to calculate the absolute damage reduction of a shield versus armor since I think there's a variable amount of damage reduced by additional armor?  Or did that go away?

We've been having our tanks (particularly those that charge the mobs) use the shields in order to smooth out the initial damage spike and give healers time to catch up.

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Re: Warlords tier 17 raid preparation
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2015, 05:52:43 AM »
For tanks, is anyone else using the engineering shield consumable as a pre-pot? They are dead cheap to make. It uses the potion cooldown but it absorbs all damage whereas pre-potting with an armor pot only absorbs the physical.  I'm not sure how to calculate the absolute damage reduction of a shield versus armor since I think there's a variable amount of damage reduced by additional armor?  Or did that go away?

We've been having our tanks (particularly those that charge the mobs) use the shields in order to smooth out the initial damage spike and give healers time to catch up.

Armor potions are also a chunk of dps for tanks, which is worth noting for the dps check fights.
And there are now 2 cooldowns:  the "potion" cooldown (+armor/+stat potions) and the "healing item" cooldown (healing tonic, health stones, engineer shield).  So you can both "pre-pot" with an armor pot and use the engineer shield.  Its not an "or".  Its worth noting that for tanks, any self healing/shielding gets multiplied by resolve, so later in the fight that healing item cooldown can actually be a lot of healing once.

Marco

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Re: Warlords tier 17 raid preparation
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2015, 05:56:09 AM »
Is that 100 dps over no-gem or 100 dps over the 70 of a cheap gem?  If it's the former then it seems like the big gems are really not worthwhile.
100 dps over no-gem.  (All of the numbers for expensive stuff in the post are against baseline, not against the cheap stuff.)  Yes, it's a big investment for a small gain over cheap gems.