Author Topic: 5.4 rogue set question  (Read 1551 times)

Snique

  • Cupcakes Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1890
5.4 rogue set question
« on: November 13, 2013, 03:31:20 AM »
I finally got my second token last night and am debating whether the rogue set bonus is just idiotic or I'm missing something.  Without reproducing the wall of text involved, it is an ability that triggers off my getting a crit on single-target melee attacks.

The problem is that as assassin spec I'm forging away from crit (haste haste and more haste, baby!) so I'm thinking this set bonus is essentially worthless. I'm unlikely to change how I forge my gear - or should I?

And since the token is a Flex gear item (540/548) does it really make sense to replace the non-set 553/561 gear item I'm wearing now?

HeidiB

  • Cupcakes Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1992
Re: 5.4 rogue set question
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2013, 05:14:31 AM »
Sometimes the tier bonus just sucks.  It was like that for Mistweavers at the start of the expansion.

For the rest, ask Mr. Robot, not me!

Marco

  • Three Rivers Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6676
Re: 5.4 rogue set question
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2013, 06:32:38 AM »
askmrrobot probably has some approximation of the set bonus value, but a tool like simulationcraft could probably answer the question with more confidence.

According to the armory, Snique still has a crit rate of over 32%, so I don't think the set bonus is worthless.  Set bonuses don't count against item budget (except for the nonexistence of warforged set gear), so "worth less than I could imagine it being worth" is not the same as "worthless."  Whether it's worth 13 item levels on two items is a matter of math.

Kharvek

  • Adjective Noun Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3108
Re: 5.4 rogue set question
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2013, 10:01:09 AM »
Dude the set bonus is *MAMMOTH*.  In fact getting it might change the weights of your secondary stats to reforge some stuff back into crit.  When I hit my 2 piece it was nearly a 15k DPS gain for me. (Granted it was with normal tier not flex, but I'd still bet flex is a significant upgrade over higher ilvl regular gear)

Also for rogues?  Mrrobot sucks.  Use this instead:

http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/

You can load your set from armory and it'll show you info about stat weights and the values of each set bonus.  When I hit the 2 piece bonus I went from Haste > mastery > crit to Haste > crit > master.  (I gained another 2k DPS after doing some of that reforge magic)

The big thing with the bonus is mutilate has a higher overall chance of proc'ing seal fate since you essentially get two 32% chances to crit.  The energy reduction on your next move is huge.  On top of that crits from free dispatchs also proc it.  So that's even more energy gained.  (And a mut crit followed by a free disptach crit stacks it to two, so your next move is 12 energy off)

So yeah.  Put that tier piece on ASAP.  When in doubt, use shadowcraft.  Aldriana is behind that project so it's pretty much the cream of the crop in terms of rogue stats and theorycraft.

When I got the bonus I never, ever feel gassed for energy and I'm never waiting for energy to build.  It lets me finally just spam, spam, spam.

Kharvek

  • Adjective Noun Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3108
Re: 5.4 rogue set question
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2013, 01:14:41 PM »
Yeah I did a quick armchair thing in Shadowcraft with your setup Snique.  The only situation I think you  go gear over set is if you're replacing the legs as your 2nd piece.  (I saw you get the hat last night so I know that's the other piece.)

However I didn't fiddle with gemming and such.  I see you have gems for hit, which generally you should avoid doing since you have more control over your stats on reforges.  Haste/agil gems and agil gems are the only ones you outta use.  It's possible with reforging 2pc Hat/Legs for you would win out, but it would be a narrow victory.

I'm dumb.  Updated.  For blue slots, that's the way to go.

However *every* other slot of hat + something....2pc wins by at least 3-6k DPS.

Sorry for getting nosy in your stuff, but again, I highly, highly recommend Shadowcraft.  It's super intuitive to use and it can really help you plan for upgrades and see which ones are the msot bang for their buck.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 03:37:00 PM by Kharvek »

Snique

  • Cupcakes Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1890
Re: 5.4 rogue set question
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2013, 07:55:21 AM »
Oh I totally appreciate you getting nosy in my stuff.  The fact that it's a hat is what made me balk - getting the uber metagem is stupid expensive, but if it's a DPS upgrade despite the ilvl downgrade then I'll swap in the set pieces.  (The second one is a chest which will replace my current random 540 chest with a set 540.)

I'll keep the already-gemmed helm in my bags in case I get another set token so I can have 2-piece AND the upgraded helm.

And yes, I only put agil/hit gems in blue slots.

Now if I could just get a f'ing drop to replace this 496 dagger I'm waving around...

Kharvek

  • Adjective Noun Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3108
Re: 5.4 rogue set question
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2013, 01:40:35 PM »
Shit, yeah.  The metagem thing is a pain.  Definitely keep the other hat around.

Snique

  • Cupcakes Member
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1890
Re: 5.4 rogue set question
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2013, 04:57:58 AM »
OK I did the regear and reforge (which did push a bunch of stuff into crit but did not suggest regemming, interestingly enough).  Training dummy with no buffs, no food/flask, and not using any cooldowns I appear to be turning out ~135k which is not bad.

Kharvek

  • Adjective Noun Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3108
Re: 5.4 rogue set question
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2013, 07:25:03 AM »
One thing you can do with shadowcraft is remove raid buffs and add them to see how that changes stat weights.  When I adjusted for dummy testing I noticed a lot of values changed quite a bit.  So pre-post new gear on dummy without buffs is gonna be a lot different than pre-post gear while raid buffed.  IE: I re-forged an my dummy DPS went down, but my raid buffed DPS went up.  (Unbuffed haste's value went down, but as I got buffed haste got better and better for me)

It's good to get used to how much faster your rotation will be with the set bonus though so some dummy time is still a good idea.