Author Topic: Garrosh Hellscream  (Read 4957 times)

Honorata

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Garrosh Hellscream
« on: October 06, 2013, 08:34:41 PM »
We don't have Garrosh dead down yet, but we're getting through P1/first intermission with the 10m group, so I'll share what I know so far:

PHASE 1
You will need two tanks for the fight, but in the first phase, you can have one tank pick up Garrosh and the adds, and the other tank just help dps, or have one tank pick up Garrosh and one tank pick up adds. On 10m, we were finding easiest to have one tank pick up everything, since it consolidated the tank damage all in one place, but tanks that are less geared, or are bad at AoE threat might get completely rocked, so you may want to use both tanks in this phase. It really depends on your healers/tanks.

Tank healing is pretty intense if you do this (it's pretty intense either way), and you'll want to set up a rotation of external CDs for your tank for pretty much the second War Song forward. (We were using a disc priest, a holy priest, and a pally as healers on our 10m attempts, so we had a rotation that basically went Pain Sup, Sac, Sac, Guardian Spirit if we needed it.) [As an aside, we've been considering trying two healing this on 10m, so i will let you know how that goes.]

The ranged portion of the raid basically stayed clumped, and alternated between a position nearer to where the Iron Star would hit the wall (where we'd drop the desecrated weapon), and a position further from the Iron Star where we'd stack for impact.

You'll definitely want to use an Iron Star to help damage the adds. If you don't have a good knockback for it, you could also root them in the path of the Iron Star.

Adds need to die going into intermission, since they'll still be up for P2 if they're not dead.

INTERMISSION
We marked both tanks, and assign G1 to go one direction and G2 the other. Since this is a 3 heal fight, you will have one group with 2 healers. We put the disc priest and both melee in the group with two healers, since the disc made up some of the missing damage, and we always operate under the assumption that melee will take more damage, but merely putting the stronger AoE damage dealers in the group with 2 healers is probably good enough.

We didn't find we really needed raid CDs to get through the Annihilates when we got to Garrosh at the end of the intermission. Drop AoE ground effect spells (healing rain, efflo, light's hammer, etc) and have the raid stand close in to Garrosh so they'll get a decent amount of healing from those and have less room they need to move to avoid the conal attack. The Annihilate is cast on a random raid member, so you won't want to stack super tightly.

PHASE 2
Cry as everyone forgets how to interrupt and the whole raid gets MC'd.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 04:02:59 AM by Honorata »
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Honorata

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Re: Garrosh Hellscream
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2013, 02:54:20 AM »
Ok, we're getting pretty deep into p2 now, so I have more to say!

- we went back to using two tanks in p1, and overall damage is a lot smoother doing it this way at our gear levels, but it really depends on what tank classes you have available.

- the benefit of 2-healing over 3-healing is that you can get through p1 and p2 a lot faster. while 2-healing we were getting through p1 with 2 iron stars and were likely to have gotten to p3 with only 2 intermissions (keeping him under 50 energy for p2, which ultimately keeps damage down). I'd recommend groups with lowish dps, good healers, and some dps classes with good healing CDs (shamans, spriests, boomkin) give 2-healing a shot to see if it helps.

- two healing isn't too bad, except in p2 you may run into troubles during the aoe phase of the empowered whirling corruption. we ultimately decided to go back to three healing.

- we didn't really need raid CDs for iron stars hitting the wall or in intermissions, really. (you may want to have dps use CDs here) [try to keep track of who doesn't get the damage reduction buff in intermissions. i would throw beacon on someone who didn't have the buff, etc.]

- you really need CDs for whirling corruptions. our order of divine hymn, my devotion aura, ret devotion aura worked well, as divine hymn was back off CD for the next whirling. ideally you don't want to use something like barrier/AMZ since for empowered whirling corruptions you'll want to be sort of spread out.

- we had issues with melee getting desecrated weapon thrown at them sometimes, which I'm not sure is a bug or a change to the fight from what I'd read about it in the past. when this happens, it sucks.

- we would have ranged run into melee or melee run out to ranged for certain mechanics: the mind controls, and to aoe heal for some mechanics between desecrates.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 03:40:44 AM by Honorata »
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Honorata

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Re: Garrosh Hellscream
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2013, 06:43:44 AM »
still don't have this dead, but we've gotten to p3 a couple times.

- From some of our further test pulls of this on 10m I would highly recommend 2-healing this if you can, as it makes p2 MUCH more manageable. use things like an spriest VE, boomy tranq, dps shaman HTT/ancestral guidance to help deal with the extra healing throughput where needed. The extra DPS really helps, since the lower your DPS the longer you have to deal with garrosh's empowered abilities in p2.

- long fight. recommend top lusting so it'll be up again for p3.

- can use a healer with good dps for the first engineer during lust in p1 (druid with hotw or holy priest in chastise are best).

- healing in intermissions isn't too bad if most get damage reduction buff. worst intermission zone for people getting the buff is red crane temple. terrace and jade serpent temple we haven't had big problems with. if a lot of people don't have the buff, have a dps blow a cd.

- how we were doing p2 involved movement in roughly in a triangle formation: ranged run out to a ranged spot, away and slightly to the left for desecrated weapon, when weapon lands, ranged run into melee for mind controls, dps aoe down MCs, ranged run back out, slightly to the right for next desecrated weapon, when weapon lands, they move back to left, melee run out to meet with ranged for whirling corruption. repeat. (sometimes there's just one desecrated weapon, in which case, melee runs out to meet ranged at right) in the first part of p2, when weapon isn't empowered, dps with strong DR CDs (AMS, bubble) may want to use that cd to stay on boss for one whirling. when whirling is empowered, everyone needs to run out.

- dealing with adds during whirling empowered is the big issue for our group. when we figure out how we're dealing with this (we might be just having a third tank kite them in 25m, but that's not really an option in 10m), i'll let you guys know.

- the main thing with empowered whirling is that you actually can kind of stack, and then see where the swirlies the adds are going to spawn are, and side step away from it. this is a little dangerous if you have a whole bunch of swirlies in one spot though as the splash will hurt like crazy. if you're spreading out for it, still try to side step the add spawning from the swirly.

- our 10m tried ignoring weapons throughout p2 and placing them along one wall, and then placing them along the wall on the opposite side of the room in p3. this allows for more time on boss, but can result in huge space issues. i'm not sure our 10m is continuing with this strat, but it's something to consider. (i wasn't in the 10m, merely listening on mumble.)

-in p3, we found our MT (DK) was dropping the tank swap stacks during whirling corruption, so we're trying out having him stay on boss and having monk tank kite adds in p3 to allow full burn on boss.
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Honorata

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Re: Garrosh Hellscream
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2013, 01:49:56 AM »
Okay, this is dead now so I have more opinions/observations:

- DPS check is tight. Want to push P2 to P3 before or just after a third intermission (empowered mind controls); it doesn't really matter how fast you get through P1, but we found it was best getting him through P1 in 3 iron stars or so. In our 10m pulls we found it was possible to push him through P1 in 1-2 iron stars, but the group basically brought its most stellar dps for this purpose.
- We found our DPS was a little low, so we had the off tank start kiting adds (from empowered whirlings) starting from the third empowered whirling forward to allow more time tunneling boss. There will be an empowered whirling RIGHT BEFORE he pulls you up to the third intermission, so gathering these adds can be super tricky if you don't have a bunch of misdirects. OT continued to kite adds throughout P3.
- I take back my original statements about lusting in P1. While learning the fight, you can lust in P1 to get to P2 faster, but we found if we did this we were waiting 20-30s for lust to be back up in p3, so once you're pushing p3, stop lusting on pull because you'll want it early in p3.
- Have a stack point set for ranged to gather entering both P2 and P3 to place desecrates well. In P3 desecrated weapons cannot be DPSed, so ranged will want to place them at the edges of the room, directly next to each other. Empowered desecrated weapons are also bigger than their unempowered brethren.
- We went ahead and continued the "everyone stack in melee and AOE" strat for dealing with empowered mind controls even if adds got kited through us, since our monk said none of them were hitting him. Highly recommend using a monk tank for this job if you have one on your team.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 01:52:44 AM by Honorata »
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Marco

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Re: Garrosh Hellscream
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2014, 08:07:17 PM »
We finally got this down after getting stuck on it for a long time.  Here are some notes on how we got past the more difficult hurdles.

* We two-healed.  With three healers there are just too many pressure points, and a third healer didn't really seem to make it a lot easier to get past pressure points.

* We didn't kill any desecrated weapons in phase 2 or 3; we just started filling up the room with them.  We started at a set point at the beginning of phase 2 and moved clockwise for each desecrate.  After the second temple, we moved to a second set point to the right of the first desecrate, and moved counterclockwise for each desecrate (reversing direction).

* The hard part of the fight really begins after the second temple, when whirling corruption becomes empowered.  It helps to consider a timeline of exactly what abilities are going to happen between then and the boss dying.  For us that was:

1. Desecrate
2. Touch (very shortly after desecrate)
3. Empowered whirling corruption
4. Desecrate while minions are being killed
5. Touch ~8s after that desecrate (possible to skip this with sufficient DPS)
-- phase 3 begins --
6. Empowered desecrate (larger than normal)
7. Empowered touch (very shortly after desecrate)
8. Empowered whirling corruption
9. Empowered desecrate
10. Empowered touch ~8s after
-- Garrosh dies --

We used heroism after step 5.  A second empowered whirling corruption before phase 3 was basically a wipe.

* When we were behind the DPS marks set by the above schedule, it often had to do wasted time in the temples, or someone dying and getting a rez in phase 2.

* When spreading out for empowered whirling corruption, I told healers to stand mostly still and DPS to use the space further away from the boss from the healers.  This minimizes the damage taken by DPS and helps place the desecrate in a good spot.

* In phase 3, we did our one and only tank swap just as whirling corruption began, and then had the OT gather up adds and kite them around.  This plan was dicey but sufficient; when Garrosh died, our OT had just died to the adds and our MT was probably going to die to stacks in a few more seconds.

* For phase 2 we didn't all group up for touch, instead having a ranged group and a melee group.  But for phase 3, we made sure the whole raid was grouped up for each empowered touch.  We did this by having the tank move the boss to the raid after the first desecrate, and just telling people to run in after the second desecrate.

HeidiB

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Re: Garrosh Hellscream
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2014, 03:33:47 PM »
The raid spreads out during empowered whirling corruption.  When is it safe to collapse back in?  (Killing adds near other adds is bad, right?  So the adds need to stay spread?)

Marco

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Re: Garrosh Hellscream
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2014, 03:48:55 PM »
The major considerations are (1) don't bring adds together if there's one following you, and (2) if the desecrate hasn't happened yet, don't put it in a bad place.

Snique

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Re: Garrosh Hellscream
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2014, 07:25:46 AM »
F&L has finally made it to Garrosh - we've been struggling on Thok and finally got it this week, then knocked out Siegemaster and Paragons in one night each.

My question: is it worth taking the time to clear a Flex wing so we can practice on Flex Garrosh or should we just dive into the 10-man version?  With multi-phase fights there's always a problem of not getting enough practice on later phases if you're exploding too fast at the start.

HeidiB

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Re: Garrosh Hellscream
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2014, 07:35:01 AM »
I'd say try it and see.  My first few attempts on Garrosh were Flex, and that was horrific enough.  If you're losing a lot of people to the "run around Garrosh in circles and try not to die in the frontal cone" phase of the fight, attempting it on Flex is probably a good idea.

His empowered whirling corruption only happens late in the fight and took us a few weeks to devise a strategy.  I believe this can also be practiced in flex.

Marco

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Re: Garrosh Hellscream
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2014, 09:43:52 AM »
Regardless of what you do, expect it to take a while to get this down on normal--at least four full nights of glasschewing, probably more.  Given that timeframe, attempting it in flex first would probably not be wasted time.

The strategy we used (two healers, stay split into two groups for touches, expect at most one empowered whirling corruption in phase 2 and one in phase 3) has pretty strict DPS requirements.  I believe the berserk timer is generous enough to support other approaches (three healers, group for touches, expect multiple empowered whirling corruptions in phases 2 and 3 as well as empowered touches in phase 2), but the longer the fight drags on, the more likely you are to have something go wrong.

Snique

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Re: Garrosh Hellscream
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2014, 05:44:11 AM »
Does anyone have a rough estimate of the DPS hurdle for 2-heal and 3-heal plans?

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Re: Garrosh Hellscream
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2014, 05:54:22 AM »
TRR uses 2 healers and our average raid-wide dps usually hovers between 1.8m and 2.1m. Our cleanest kill had the higher end of that range; this past Sunday we averaged 1.8m dps and one-shot him, but things got really messy during the last 20 seconds, leaving us with only 3 people alive by the time he went down.

Marco

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Re: Garrosh Hellscream
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2014, 07:24:33 AM »
Phase 1 skews raid DPS because of all of the AOE.  If you omit phase 1 (starting where raid DPS drops to its lowest point about two minutes into the fight), our three kills have raid DPS of 1.4M, 1.6M, and 1.5M:

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8bmkjryJptczdnPR#start=2502052&end=2932102
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hGyqftRLMbxpzVmn#start=2979147&end=3328262
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Pz2tnq9aCBpKHdVf#start=4076702&end=4479083

Phase 1 DPS is important but cyclical.  You want to come out of it cleanly, with no adds and no weapons up, but you can do that by speeding up or slowing down.  I haven't figured out how to make a DPS stop call at the right time, so I only know how to adjust over the course of several pulls (not very efficient when you're trying to farm him) by telling people to speed up or slow down slightly.

The big milestone in phase 2 is Garrosh's health going into the second temple.  On both our second and third kill, we went in with him at 25%.  He pops to 35% immediately upon entering, but you can do about 10% of his health during a temple phase so he exits back at around 25%.  Then we have to get him to 10% either before the first empowered whirling corruption (which is awesome when we can pull it off) or failing that, the second.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hGyqftRLMbxpzVmn#type=resources&hostility=1&source=37&spell=1000
http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Pz2tnq9aCBpKHdVf#type=resources&hostility=1&source=110&spell=1000

Snique

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Re: Garrosh Hellscream
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2014, 05:24:12 AM »
How do you teach people to DPS this thing?  We've butted heads with it a few times and the failure seems to be not enough DPS.  In particular - even with a knockback - the pack of adds isn't dying before the next pack spawns and that tends to overrun the tanks.

We're also vacillating on strategies for the ranged/heals group.  Plan A is just to move between two points, but that means we're in the closer-to-the-left-wall spot when the iron star hits the that wall and that's a lot of damage.  If the wolf rider happens to throw a chain lightning into the pack just before the star hits, people can take 750k of damage in less than 1 GCD and tend to die.  Plan B is to move back and forth more quickly, always making sure we're at the farther spot when the iron star hits the wall.  That tends to cut the damage to about 300k from the star so a star/lightning combo is more survivable.  But then the weapon lands and we're all running again, which sucks for the DPS and strains the healers another way.

Our targeting priority is wolf > Garrosh > adds but much of the time that turns into weapon > wolf > Garrosh and there's not enough DPS on the rider to get it down before several chain lightnings go off.

Any thoughts?

HeidiB

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Re: Garrosh Hellscream
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2014, 05:41:34 AM »
Isn't the wheel killing the adds?  I don't know how we do it, but TRR usually has everything but the wolf and Garrosh dead after the wheel passes.