Author Topic: Hearthstone (and battlenet desktop)  (Read 61992 times)

Leah

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Re: Hearthstone (and battlenet desktop)
« Reply #645 on: April 07, 2017, 03:24:09 PM »
I play on my iPhone when not at home and I've not had any issues aside from the known bug about cards continuing to show as new.

Well, unless you count the issue of not being able to win much of anything with my chosen warrior deck... ;D

Snique

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Re: Hearthstone (and battlenet desktop)
« Reply #646 on: April 17, 2017, 08:06:16 AM »
More noodling from me about that game no one else seems to play.  Well, I've noticed a couple people well above me in rank this month. I'm still down at 17/18 in part because I lack a lot of cards, notably the quest cards. So let's start with that.

The quest cards appear to be quite powerful, possibly OP. Comparing their impact on a game with an ordinary legendary they outclass pretty much every legendary. The good ones (rogue, warrior, shaman) synergize with a deck type that would be competitive anyway and thus become extra-dominant. The downside to this is that having them is becoming nearly mandatory, which makes getting into Hearthstone right now super-expensive. I have some dust but not enough to craft all three. I don't recall Hearthstone ever having this high of a cost wall before and it's sort of cranky-making.

That said, it's entirely possible that this expansion has revived midrange decks. I have seen several variants of midrange hunter reappear and seem to be fairly competitive. Paladin still hasn't produced a really good midrange deck but I suspect that'll come too. Priest seems to have been the worst hurt by this shift, having tumbled from top to bottom of the competitive ranks. The priest quest is weak (and too slow), dragons are dead, and people are still experimenting with tempo (priest is bad at this anyway) and gimmicks.

Pirate warrior is still a thing, but since the warrior quest is so powerful you're as likely to see taunt warrior now as pirate. Sadly, classic control warrior is looking dead simply because it's inferior both to pirate and to quest/taunt.

Jade decks are still prevalent but are generally inferior to the quest decks. Jade shaman is decidedly worse than quest shaman, having lost half its opening game in the card shuffle. Jade druid still seems to be the thing but I suspect we'll see beast face druid come back soon - the class needs something faster to deal with the rogue and shaman quest decks. I'm still experimenting with my jade rogue; since I don't have the quest I need something. The variant I got last night seems not to be utterly sucky.

Zoo is still zoo, as expected. It has probably the usual 50-ish percent win rate. The problem is that if you face a warlock you know right away what you're playing so the mulligan and early plays become obvious. That alone forces down their win rate. I've seen a couple attempts at midrange and demon warlock but nothing good yet. The other problem is that AOEs have become somewhat stronger; murloc shaman has ways to avoid the cheap AOEs but warlock AOEs are too self-destructive (I think).

April is just a crazy month for me so I'm not sure how much more ranked play I'll get to do. The next big checkpoint will be seeing what decks the high-rank players bring to the tournaments. I predict 3/4ths quest decks.

Jenilea

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Re: Hearthstone (and battlenet desktop)
« Reply #647 on: April 17, 2017, 04:16:10 PM »
I am finding that pirate warrior is still strong. It has got me to rank 8. The quest rogue deck is the most common of the quest decks but I have not lost yet to a rogue quest as they are too slow. The warrior quest is strong and usually wins but I have seen less than a handful of them. The new hunter deck is quite good but the quest does not do much for it. The druid quest deck is not bad but it is the taunts that beat pirate. I have not seen much of the other class quests. For the most part, I think the quests are too slow and, apart from warrior and maybe rogue, will not see much play. The current meta reminds my of Old Gods - C'Thun was popular for a few weeks and then pretty much disappeared from the meta.
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Leah

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Re: Hearthstone (and battlenet desktop)
« Reply #648 on: April 19, 2017, 12:07:00 PM »
I'm mystified by you guys saying how strong Quest Warrior is because I simply cannot buy a win most days. I'm not a great player by any stretch but I'm starting to feel like I chose the wrong class to play.

Snique

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Re: Hearthstone (and battlenet desktop)
« Reply #649 on: April 20, 2017, 07:07:17 AM »
Quest warrior stacks taunt minions. There are several quite strong taunt minions, such as the one that gives you armor for all the damage it produces, and one that lets you discover another taunt minion, and one that when it dies shuffles a stronger version of itself into your deck. Then there's the one that does some damage to everything else, which is usually played in combo with the spell that does extra damage to everything damaged, or the spell the summons a copy of all your damaged minions.

So quest warrior is starting off with 8 or 10 strong taunt minions. Augment that with some card draw and a couple early weapons. Add in the half dozen or so typical warrior removal cards (slam, shield slam, execute) and you have a control deck that's hard to beat. You probably want board clears (brawl) and some aoe damage (the 3/3 exploder).

That alone would be a strong deck, probably competitive. Now around turn 7 or 8 you're going to get a 2-mana per turn Ragnaros that's unremovable. At which point, game over man. The only reason I've seen people not play that is because they're low on health and want the armor.

Like any control deck you can beat it with a speed deck - rogue quest and pirate warrior being the two most popular now. That turns it into more or less a coin flip as to whether you can drop enough block to stall out the speed decks, which usually don't run a lot of removal. If you're going up against another control deck you may want something that has longevity. Ysera would be my choice because it can generate minions as well as spells. I've seen people use other high-end finishers. Even arcane giants are usable because you'd expect to play half a dozen spells during the game and dropping an 8/8 for 4 or 6 mana is often good enough.

Cree

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Re: Hearthstone (and battlenet desktop)
« Reply #650 on: April 20, 2017, 07:41:37 AM »
Day9 hit legend with a slightly modified freeze mage.  I might break my personal ban on playing a freeze mage and give it a try.     I've been trying a combination of face hunter and fatigue warrior.

I don't like how powerless many of the quests make your opponent feel.    The quests would be more fun if they were more interactive.
Cree (Dr 110) Haikili (Sh 102) Eep (Ma 93) Elisya (Dk 81) Maxine (Pa 85) Urusai (R 90) Gihr (H 83) Nikolievna (Wk 100) Anae (Pr 99) Ressha (Wr 76) Mayu (Mo 36) Adali (DH 110)

ghoselle

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Re: Hearthstone (and battlenet desktop)
« Reply #651 on: April 20, 2017, 07:52:12 AM »
Day9 hit legend with a slightly modified freeze mage.  I might break my personal ban on playing a freeze mage and give it a try.     I've been trying a combination of face hunter and fatigue warrior.

I don't like how powerless many of the quests make your opponent feel.    The quests would be more fun if they were more interactive.

Yeah - I wish there were things I could do to interfere with my opponents ability to complete a quest.  But more or less, it seems like if they draw the cards they need for their quest they probably just win.  (caveat:  I have relatively few cards of the new expansion and no quests of my own)

Snique

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Re: Hearthstone (and battlenet desktop)
« Reply #652 on: May 02, 2017, 09:50:56 AM »
Finished at 13 last month, largely due to Pirate Warrior (forgive me, I have sinned). Although speed decks are continuing to dominate the meta there's more breathing room opening up and some midrange and tempo decks are making themselves known. I'm enjoying playing more, if only because there are multiple viable deck styles per class now. Finja is definitely the unexpected superhero of this cycle; I'm going to have to craft it I think.

The priest is starting to make a comeback, mostly with silence decks. It's hard to characterize the style - it's sort of a mix of control and tempo where you stack a lot of high-health minions so they trade efficiently. I crafted a few cards so I could try this deck out. The three best secrets (rogue, warrior, shaman more or less in that order) still showing up a lot.

Mage, surprisingly, is in a very bad position right now. Too much of mage power is based on randomness so if it works you're great and if not, well no. I'm seeing pretty much every mage deck running two Counterspell now in an effort to neutralize the rogue secret. If you get that to work the rogue tends to concede because that deck has no back-up plan. The flip side of this is that mage is currently super-strong in Arena and the combo-heavy classes (hunter and priest) are doing very badly.

Snique

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Re: Hearthstone (and battlenet desktop)
« Reply #653 on: May 19, 2017, 04:24:22 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWwr7midQFA

Kibler on the problem(s) with Quest rogue. Yes, it loses to other ultra-aggro decks, but it's very dominant against almost everything else. This leans the meta WAY over into the aggro side. The overall numbers show Quest rogue not winning that often, but that's because it forces everyone who wants to beat it consistently to play other high aggro.

It, like the other quests, is almost like playing a game of solitaire. There's nothing you can do - either they're going to get it or they won't. Quest rogue also has the advantage that there's little to nothing you can do to improve your deck for matches against it. Pirate warrior has to worry about Golakka (in fact I'm seeing some pirates playing that themselves now). The only counter I've seen is Counterspell but any rogue with sense will see you have a secret up and play around that.

Kibler has some ideas on how to deal with it, most of which come down to "nerf the damn thing" but it's much more sophistically stated than that.

Cree

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Re: Hearthstone (and battlenet desktop)
« Reply #654 on: May 23, 2017, 09:29:28 AM »
I've finally found a deck I'm having fun with again.   It's day9's evolve/devolve shaman deck (without the legendaries), and it while it's fast enough to kill a crystal core rogue, it doesn't feel completely aggro.   It does have a bit too much RNG, but not so much it isn't fun.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 09:31:08 AM by Cree »
Cree (Dr 110) Haikili (Sh 102) Eep (Ma 93) Elisya (Dk 81) Maxine (Pa 85) Urusai (R 90) Gihr (H 83) Nikolievna (Wk 100) Anae (Pr 99) Ressha (Wr 76) Mayu (Mo 36) Adali (DH 110)

Snique

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Re: Hearthstone (and battlenet desktop)
« Reply #655 on: May 24, 2017, 07:08:46 AM »
That's interesting, I'll look it up. I'm actually having fun playing HS again since this expansion because midrange is back. It's always been my preferred style and I'm enjoying the mental game of figuring out how to make the right trades. I can often beat pirate warrior but quest rogue just dominates - it's frustrating. Basically I have to hope that the other player makes an error or that I can force an error by (for example) getting a lot of face damage early. I'll make nominally stupid plays just to try and drop the rogue down in health enough that they're worried about me OTK them. If they draw Prep, though, it's GG.

Cree

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Re: Hearthstone (and battlenet desktop)
« Reply #656 on: May 24, 2017, 10:56:08 AM »
the meta seems to have changed and the deck no longer works. Sigh. 
Cree (Dr 110) Haikili (Sh 102) Eep (Ma 93) Elisya (Dk 81) Maxine (Pa 85) Urusai (R 90) Gihr (H 83) Nikolievna (Wk 100) Anae (Pr 99) Ressha (Wr 76) Mayu (Mo 36) Adali (DH 110)

Snique

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Re: Hearthstone (and battlenet desktop)
« Reply #657 on: June 22, 2017, 11:59:52 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmqz4Fun94k

Interesting video from Kibler on the competitive scene in Hearthstone and its negativity. Some interesting tidbits, like I had no idea he was in the MtG Hall of Fame. His overall theme is that people overemphasize the effect of randomness in HS which is admittedly much larger than other games such as MtG but the result is also to downplay the skill and practice of the players involved.

He has some suggestions for making things better, including in-game support for tournament-style play, which I would dearly love to see, but mostly it's an issue of the people (particularly the popular streamers) involved.

Snique

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Re: Hearthstone (and battlenet desktop)
« Reply #658 on: June 26, 2017, 03:53:19 PM »
If you are thinking about spending cash on Hearthstone packs, there's a special on where you get more packs per buck at every level now.

Snique

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Re: Hearthstone (and battlenet desktop)
« Reply #659 on: July 03, 2017, 04:38:27 AM »
Well, it only took three months but quest rogue is getting a nerf. Up from 4 copies of the same minion to 5. That's really key as the high-ladder versions of the deck play a lot of generate cards (things that battlecry or deathrattle to generate other things and at 5 copies you can't simply depend on generation. You'll have to generate and draw your bounce cards. That likely means you won't get your quest done until turn 7 or 8 rather than 4 or 5 and that's a big improvement - it opens up space for a lot more decks and means the rogue takes much more face damage, which is the way to beat that deck.

I expect this will likely have a HUGE impact on the meta since removing quest rogue will also reduce pressure on other decks to out-pace it. Early on in this expansion I was enjoying the return of mid-range decks and I'm hoping they'll make a comeback now.