Author Topic: Tortos  (Read 4792 times)

HeidiB

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Re: Tortos
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2013, 10:22:19 AM »
A strategy TRR evolved to deal with the rockfalls is to start on the left side of the room, then move to the right to avoid the blue circles on the floor.  Next rockfall, move from right to left.  The goal is to reduce the problem of running from one rockfall into another.  The failure mode is that if you move too fast, the destination side of the room fills with blue circles.

In my role as Sha of Whining, I shall also mention that dps standing at max range from Tortos may not be in range of the tank healers.

We also use a paladin healer to gather the bats.  Good plan.  Keeps 'em off the monk.

Snique

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Re: Tortos
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2013, 05:46:11 AM »
Ah, healing with RF.  Been a long time since I did that.

We usually run with 4 ranged and 1 melee.  Often that melee is me (assassin rogue) who has shit for AOE and no splash damage at all so we haven't bothered moving to the melee. I hadn't considered the value of the OT splashing onto Tortos tho.

Our OT is usually a paladin, but sometimes a warrior.  Also, the ranged whined at me that they couldn't target the bat pack when the tank kept moving it, so we tried keeping it stationary.  Whiney mages are whiney but they're also usually our #1 and #3 on DPS so I put up with it.

The DPS have been scattered; I think we'll try a more disciplined group movement next time. However, the problem isn't people being caught in the circles, it's being pounded by 4-6 splashes of 50k-70k in a row.  Yes, I realize it's RNG but it seems to happen to SOMEONE on every pull.  Rockfall is nature damage (WTF Blizzard??) so we can sometimes mitigate it with devo aura but that's one per 3 minutes.

Edalia

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Re: Tortos
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2013, 06:54:53 AM »
Our OT is usually a paladin, but sometimes a warrior.  Also, the ranged whined at me that they couldn't target the bat pack when the tank kept moving it, so we tried keeping it stationary.  Whiney mages are whiney but they're also usually our #1 and #3 on DPS so I put up with it.

The DPS have been scattered; I think we'll try a more disciplined group movement next time. However, the problem isn't people being caught in the circles, it's being pounded by 4-6 splashes of 50k-70k in a row.  Yes, I realize it's RNG but it seems to happen to SOMEONE on every pull.  Rockfall is nature damage (WTF Blizzard??) so we can sometimes mitigate it with devo aura but that's one per 3 minutes.

The whiny mages should DPS with whiny healthbars on. They can use TidyPlates to make it more manageable, though there are already 3 or 5 styles in the stock UI of healthbar stacking. Also, why would they need to target the bat pack? Do you just mean the area the bat pack is in? If so, put a mark on the OT and they should be able to see the general area! A Living Bomb or Arcane Torrent on Tortos should also hit most of the bats if they're close to Tortos.

What we're saying about moving in a disciplined way mitigates exactly the 5-6 rockfalls at once problem. If, after quake, your group moves slowly across to the other side of the room, leaving a trail of rockfalls on the way, there should be no place where there's a stack of more than 2-3 within significant damage range.
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Brynndolin

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Re: Tortos
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2013, 10:19:06 AM »
Who your healers are to two-heal this makes a difference. I was just awful with my shaman. I switched to my priest. Having a lot of heals that bounce/smart heal without requiring people to be close to each other/requiring you to stand still/requiring you to target the right person/etc. made an enormous difference. There's no comparison healing this with my shaman versus my priest. I think you could have one less mobile healer if your other had some amount of flexibility. Not sure what you have.

Edalia

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Re: Tortos
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2013, 10:52:17 AM »
You could also try 2.5-healing with a Fistweaver or Disc priest.
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Snique

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Re: Tortos
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2013, 07:36:27 AM »
Our best healer is a disc priest. Shields seem absolutely to REWL on this fight. Normally he's 15-20% ahead of me on the meters (e.g. Horridon) but on our Tortos attempts he's coming in 40-50% ahead. The other healer is almost always me or another healadin. Very rarely a tree.

Some of the drop-off is that I cannot use my normal healing style on this fight, which relies heavily on HR. I'm just moving too much when the proc is up. I'm also considering dropping EF for Sacred Shield, which is only one target but is a pretty big shield.

I did swap out hammer for prism, and I have a macro for hitting my focus target with that.  Usually I focus the OT and hit that button on cooldown, which gives me a pretty big heal I can cast without taking extra time to target even when flying (damned whirlturtles) or immediately after coming out of the stomp stun.

HeidiB

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Re: Tortos
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2013, 07:49:49 AM »
We routinely kill Tortos with a mistweaver and healadin, so paladins *can* heal this fight.  I agree that hammer is probably not the right tool (if you mean the sparkly hammer on the ground ability).

I know running righteous fury keeps dps from being eaten by bats, and we've swapped beacon to the Tortos tank on occasion for survivability.  Other than that I don't know what Apert is doing.

Is Sacred Shield the thing you need when the bats are still alive going into stomp?  On a mistweaver I'd use my hamster ball if I had the situational awareness to do so.

jsoh

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Re: Tortos
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2013, 07:59:55 AM »
I did swap out hammer for prism, and I have a macro for hitting my focus target with that.  Usually I focus the OT and hit that button on cooldown, which gives me a pretty big heal I can cast without taking extra time to target even when flying (damned whirlturtles) or immediately after coming out of the stomp stun.

If I may be so bold as offer a strongly held opinion, that is a suboptimal way of using prism on that fight. I suspect you'll get better mileage by zapping Tortos with prism after every stomp and thus getting heals on 5 other people, rather than a large-ish instant on the bat tank.

FWIW, I barely use HR on Tortos (and I'm not sure what proc you're talking about). What I'll try to do is bank 5 HP going into a stomp, and then immediately go prism, flashlight, flashlight as I dodge rockfall. If I get Divine Purpose procs, then... more flashlights.

Other useful healadin trick: Spec into Clemency, and then you can completely nullify every other stomp (for you, at least), by HoP'ing yourself/bubbling just before the stomp. You wont get stunned, and you wont take damage. Stomps are 45s apart, so you can't do it every stomp, even if you wanted to due to Forbearance. To handle those, I glyph Divine Prot, and hit that when I cant bubble myself.

on preview: Jinsu - sacred shield is not going to save the bat tank if the bats are still up going into a stomp. Its a decent shield, but its not *that* big.

Edalia

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Re: Tortos
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2013, 08:06:52 AM »
To handle those, I glyph Divine Prot, and hit that when I cant bubble myself.

This is for the stomp or rockfalls? Rockfalls would be better to have it unglyphed, but I guess you need it glyphed for stomp.
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jsoh

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Re: Tortos
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2013, 09:49:58 AM »
I had a whole bunch of napkin math here that a misclick sent spiraling into the ether. The gist of it was that DP is (arguably) better glyphed if you dont think you'll take more than ~3 rockfall splashes. I think going either way is defensible.

Of course, I was sitting here being surprised that falling rocks was actually nature damage, so what do I know?

Snique

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Re: Tortos
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2013, 05:10:23 AM »
you'll get better mileage by zapping Tortos with prism after every stomp and thus getting heals on 5 other people, rather than a large-ish instant on the bat tank.

The range on prism seems too small for that.  If I hit Tortos I'm getting Tortos and heals on the MT and the one melee, neither of whom seem to be in imminent danger of dying after stomp.

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bank 5 HP going into a stomp

What are you using to bank those HP?  HR is half my HP build, and it has the dual effects of being smart about who it heals nearby and passing heals through to the beacon.

Quote
Spec into Clemency, and then you can completely nullify every other stomp (for you, at least), by HoP'ing yourself/bubbling just before the stomp. You wont get stunned, and you wont take damage. Stomps are 45s apart, so you can't do it every stomp, even if you wanted to due to Forbearance. To handle those, I glyph Divine Prot, and hit that when I cant bubble myself.

Hurm.  That's a thought.  I didn't realize HOP would block the stun.  Honestly it's not the stun on me that's a big problem, though.  It's the asston of damage that the OT takes followed by another asston as someone has to run away from 5-6 rocks.


jsoh

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Re: Tortos
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2013, 06:08:30 AM »
The range of prism's return beams are a function of the size of the target's hitbox. In Tortos's case, his ginormously huge hitbox. Yes. You're more than likely to get the tank/bat tank/melee, but assuming your ranged isnt grouped up at the very very back of the room (which they shouldnt be), they'll get zapped as well. eg:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/mkowjyv8x641t9or/spell/114852/?s=9300&e=9589
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ky1ff1kbtf8invui/spell/114852/?s=3142&e=3481

On the subject of HR/HP:

* I use the normal HP generators. HS, DL-on-beacon (eg). In theory, the 45s between stomps is sufficient time to build 5 HP using only HS. In practice I won't always have 5HP going into a stomp, in which case I improvise.

* As I mentioned, I find HR a poor choice for Tortos. Post-stomp - when there is the highest clump factor - you rarely get enough time to get a cast off. Inter-stomp periods, people tend to be too spread out for HR to be efficient; its better to patch people with HS/HL, since HR is obscenely expensive.

Finally:

Quote
[the problem with the stomp is] the asston of damage that the OT takes

As has been brought up previously, this is a problem that can really only be solved via the application of additional dps, and not a wholesale change in the manner in which you heal the fight. The condition of "bats alive in significant numbers at a stomp" as a regular occurrence is not conducive to winning.

If you have a situation where (eg) your problem is that its only the first wave of bats that you have problems downing before the stomp, and you dont mind living very very dangerously, you could pull the HoP trick on the OT when the stomp happens. eg:

* bubble yourself
* Immediately before the stomp happens, HoP the tank
* Immediately cast another hand (doesnt matter which one - freedom is safest, but any will do) on the OT to clear the HoP. Alternatively, have the tank mash a cancelaura macro (tho - they may have "fixed" that)

The downside (other than not being able to pull it off more than once) is if you mistime things, you wind up with a whole bunch of dead people as the bats wander off every which way.

I suppose you could also HoSac the OT prior to each stomp, but you can only do that for 2 out of every 3 stomps and unless you've bubbled/self-HoP'd, you run the risk of killing yourself as well.

Edalia

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Re: Tortos
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2013, 08:34:58 AM »
A pally OT can Blinding Light the bats, a warrior can Shockwave them. That way if there's a stomp coming while bats are up, they can at least make sure they don't explode while stunned.
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jsoh

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Re: Tortos
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2013, 09:26:05 AM »
You'd want to glyph blinding light to ensure that existing dots dont break the stun/disorient.

Chibe

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Re: Tortos
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2013, 10:31:30 AM »
Actually, CC will work on those baties.