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Theorycrafting and Class Discussion / Re: 8.0.x stuff
« Last post by Snique on October 10, 2018, 05:25:20 AM »
Quote
a number of confusing and frustrating elements that require me to stare at websites other people have to support to even kind of sort of land somewhere viable. Not fun.

This. I have 4x shoulders of the same ilvl in my bag and two specs and frelled if I'm going to construct a spreadsheet just to see which one I should be using for bear and which for cat. That's a ridiculous amount of combinatorics for an unknown payoff.
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Theorycrafting and Class Discussion / Re: 8.0.x stuff
« Last post by Honorata on October 09, 2018, 09:20:20 PM »
At this point in legion, legendaries weren't at the choice stage for most people though. you probably only had the 1-2 and were wearing them purely for the stats even if they were bad anyway. The breadth of leggo choice took a while to build up. Leggo drop situation was bad, but wasn't super overwhelming. (Basically, the leggo choice factor started coming in around the time we had our whole artifact filled)

Im trying to hold off having too many negative opinions on azerite gear until we get a True/Tier raid with more gear choice/drops. Itemization/gear situation always sucks in starter raid
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Outside Azeroth - General Chatter / Re: Wildstar
« Last post by Snique on October 09, 2018, 07:57:14 PM »
Sic itur ad astra - the WildStar game service will close on November 28.

https://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/2018-09-26-wildstar-signing-off-november-28/

They're going all the way back to July to refund peoples' purchases, which seems like a really nice gesture.

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Theorycrafting and Class Discussion / Re: 8.0.x stuff
« Last post by Marco on October 09, 2018, 03:17:15 PM »
There's a good case for Azerite presenting too many choices relative to itemization in past expansions, but the primary avenue of choice in Legion's itemization came from legendaries, not set bonuses or artifacts.  (Well, and the netherlight crucible, but we can just pretend that didn't happen.)  Perhaps it's important that legendaries didn't present any choices until a ways in when you had several to choose from, while Azerite throws choices at you right away.
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Theorycrafting and Class Discussion / Re: 8.0.x stuff
« Last post by Piralyn on October 09, 2018, 02:09:12 PM »
I think it's also compounded by the fact that they continue to dive deeper into shallower tooltips. Like one of the traits is "Attacks occasionally inspire you and four allies with the might of the alliance."

Cool.

What the fuck does that do?

This other trait sometimes procs me 800 Mastery. This other one gives me 150 every time I cast a nature spell. What's the proc rate on that first one? Who knows!

Even if You wanted to eyeball it, you almost literally can't with some of these choices because you're given a small fraction of the valid information. You can do that with some things, like I don't need to know that ability X can do 1000-1100 damage--a 1050 average is fine. The concern about overwhelming people with too much information so that they have to sim because there's too much stuff to juggle has gone too far to the extreme and caused the exact same problem they were trying to avoid, and potentially worse.

There's often going to be one right choice and thirty wrong ones, but if you at least have the information to make an informed choice, then cool. Like, maybe dumping all your crit will give you a 2% boost, but if it feels like shit, is it worth it? If you can't tell that swapping traits is going to kill your crit but site X says it'll give you a 2% boost and you do it, you're going to feel like your spec sucks and you have no idea why.

Artifact weapons were definitely a much better choice since there was a defined path that everyone was going to eventually go down, yes, but with some minor customization/optimization with relics.

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Theorycrafting and Class Discussion / Re: 8.0.x stuff
« Last post by Kharvek on October 09, 2018, 01:39:53 PM »
Kristin's note of "Another thing I need an outside resource to tell me what's best" is a big one.  With artifact weapon?  You eventually got all the traits so making the wrong choice wasn't a huge deal since at the end of the day, you'd eventually get that trait.  Set bonuses are generally a 'you get what you're given' thing so it's a bonus you look forward to.  (Unless your set bonus sucks, or you have a shit bonus following an amazing one where you gotta mix/match sets)

...but I think mix/matching sets was less of a hassle than everything surrounding azerite.

I think the goal they want is for there to be a new mechanic where you feel like you're getting to make meaningful choices about your character's progression but keep having to relearn the lesson of "There is no such thing as a choice.  There is 1 right choice and 30 wrong choices" and that pressure never feels good.  Set bonuses solve that by stripping choice away and we get fun perks that make us more powerful beyond more numbers.

I really think they got it right with artifact weapons since there's an illusion of choice, but really...there isn't since everyone of a certain spec ends up with the same stuff in the end.  (Spec swapping sucks, but they coulda just made it so all artifact weapons of a given character are the same)
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Theorycrafting and Class Discussion / Re: 8.0.x stuff
« Last post by Piralyn on October 09, 2018, 12:32:27 PM »
I'm not too sure I'd quite call this as controversial as some more general "Azerite is not fun"  "We're going to give higher level rewards but the math about what you get when is unclear" isn't quite as big a deal as "We're going to break the numbers were a single trait is amazing above all else, then we're going to nerf it so bad it's the worst trait so you need to rethink every piece you've won"

I think the core controversy here is "All other loot can be any ilvl!  ...except these which come in 15 ilvl intervals for some damn reason"

"Controversy" might not be as accurate as "another fix/adjustment that they didn't think through and have to back pedal/readjust again within 24 hours"

I mean it's not "Hey let's turn this 355+ weapon into a level 10 transmog item because we fucked up. Nobody will ever possibly be mad about that!" but it's yet another goodwill sapping thing that I would think most anyone could see coming with this implementation. It's not super high up on that scale, sure, but I have trouble fathoming that no one expected people to be irritated/frustrated about them not following a curve/pattern that they've been using for like two or three years now and not having any indication/explanation as such.

I'm not as salty about it as like the subreddit or anything; I just have trouble seeing from a customer service perspective how this shit is getting signed off on week in and week out.
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Theorycrafting and Class Discussion / Re: 8.0.x stuff
« Last post by Brynndolin on October 09, 2018, 12:15:04 PM »
I'm not too sure I'd quite call this as controversial as some more general "Azerite is not fun"  "We're going to give higher level rewards but the math about what you get when is unclear" isn't quite as big a deal as "We're going to break the numbers were a single trait is amazing above all else, then we're going to nerf it so bad it's the worst trait so you need to rethink every piece you've won"

I think the core controversy here is "All other loot can be any ilvl!  ...except these which come in 15 ilvl intervals for some damn reason"

I'm a pretty big proponent of this perspective - just more examples of how they insist on being less than clear about a system that's already created a number of confusing and frustrating elements that require me to stare at websites other people have to support to even kind of sort of land somewhere viable. Not fun. Also - if you thought there were bag organization challenges before, there's nothing like having 18 hats in your bags and being paranoid about trashing any of them, because this 340 s*** piece might perform better than your 370.
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Theorycrafting and Class Discussion / Re: 8.0.x stuff
« Last post by Piralyn on October 09, 2018, 11:24:49 AM »
God damn it Mitch.
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Theorycrafting and Class Discussion / Re: 8.0.x stuff
« Last post by Kharvek on October 09, 2018, 11:18:55 AM »
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769297394?page=33#post-646

Looks like the rewards should be more generous and perhaps more predictable next time they come around.

Except for Tom.
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