Deadly Cupcakes

Game Discussion => Theorycrafting and Class Discussion => Topic started by: Marco on October 07, 2019, 11:54:30 AM

Title: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on October 07, 2019, 11:54:30 AM
Ion Hazzikostas video: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t//324398/1
PTR patch notes: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/visions-of-n-zoth-content-update-development-notes/324862
Class balance changes: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/class-changes-in-visions-of-n-zoth/324816
Auction house changes: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-auction-house-revamp/324822

* The patch title is "Visions of N'Zoth".

* The single-player or small-group content starts with assaults on Uldum and the Veil of Eternal Blossoms (and possibly other zones containing titan facilities).  Completing an assault grants access to a Vision of N'Zoth, which is a 1-5 player scenario centered around alternate versions of Orgrimmar and Stormwind. Sanity drain will force a retreat from these scenarios, but you will bring back Fragments of N'zoth to be analyzed by Magni and MOTHER.  Wrathion will help you with a legendary cloak, which is strengthened by analyzing fragments and helps defend against sanity drain.  This sounds a little reminiscent of The Deaths of Chromie, but as a central content feature rather than a side story.

* The new 12-boss raid is called Ny'alotha.  From a lore perspective, Ny'alotha exists all around us on the other side of a thin veil, so I would expect environments to make use of twisted versions of existing locations.

* For the Heart of Azeroth, there are new essences and a new slot in the neck.  The new neck slot has a diamond shape, distinct from either the major or the three minor slots; I'm not sure how that system will work exactly.

* Something will happen to titanforging, but they haven't announced what it is.  This comes from both a story perspective (N'Zoth is affecting our loot rewards by attacking the titan forges), and a desire to make harder content more rewarding relative to easier content.

* Horde are getting Vulpera as an allied race.  Alliance are getting Mechagnomes.

* Goblins and Worgen are getting heritage armor.  (Worgen heritage armor includes a top hat.  There is some possibility that these heritage armor sets were delayed from 8.2.5 purely to add the top hat.)

* There is an auction house overhaul, "to make it faster, more performant, and to get rid of those annoying single stacks".   Shopping lists have been added to the base AH UI. There are some nice UI demonstrations in the video, starting around the 15-minute mark.  It looks like a nice update, but I still wish they would add buy orders or market-making so that we could sell stuff (at least stackable trade materials) instantly, like we can with wow tokens.

* The new M+ affix is "Corrupted".  Obelisks will appear around the instance.  You can interact with them to fight a miniboss in an alternate-reality version of the instance, and when the miniboss is defeated, you appear wherever you are standing within the instance when it dies--so you can use these to do skips without shroud or invis pots.  If you ignore an obelisk, its miniboss will attack you during the final boss fight.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Leah on October 07, 2019, 02:38:05 PM
(Worgen heritage armor includes a top hat.  There is some possibility that these heritage armor sets were delayed from 8.2.5 purely to add the top hat.)

I'm pretty sure that Tweed would agree that that was a cycle well spent!
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on October 23, 2019, 12:39:54 PM
The PTR is showing an early version of what is replacing titanforging.  There's no Blizzard feedback post on this yet, so I expect there's a bit more to the picture.  I also don't know if this is replacing warforging as well (meaning no more +5/+10 ilvl bonuses on items), or just titanforging (+15 or more ilvls).

The general idea seems to be that a drop which would otherwise titanforge will instead be "corrupted", giving it both a beneficial effect and an amount of "corruption".  The beneficial effects can be quite strong (like "increase haste from all sources by 4%") but the negative effects of corruption sound pretty bad.  They start off with a chance to be slowed when you take damage and progress to damage pools appearing under your feet (only affecting you), getting occasionally chased around by a Thing From Beyond, and finally to increased damage taken and reduced healing taken.

There are indications that items can be "cleansed", removing both the corruption and the beneficial effect.  I'm wondering if the legendary cloak will provide some amount of corruption resistance, creating a budget for corrupted items before you take any harmful effects.  Without that, I could see people tolerating a small amount of corruption (less than 40), but even just the random slow could be deadly at times.

Separately, the quaking affix will be buffed/nerfed.  It won't harm you, but will harm other people in your circle twice as much.  So if the group spreads out properly it's just an annoying interrupt, but four people sharing circles will all die.  wowhead also has more details on the Corrupted affix minibosses.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=295789/corrupted-items-is-the-new-titanforging-details-how-it-works
https://www.wowhead.com/news=295810/corrupted-items-corruption-debuff-breakpoints-and-scaling-of-debuffs
https://www.wowhead.com/news=295802/corrupted-items-list-of-positive-affixes-and-corruption-stat-ranges
https://www.wowhead.com/news=295801/mythic-season-4-affix-corrupted-details-how-it-works
https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-new-mythic-keystone-affix-corrupted/97541
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: **andius on October 23, 2019, 02:30:44 PM
So far it sounds awful :/
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: HeidiB on October 23, 2019, 04:53:10 PM
The general idea seems to be that a drop which would otherwise titanforge will instead be "corrupted", giving it both a beneficial effect and an amount of "corruption".  The beneficial effects can be quite strong (like "increase haste from all sources by 4%") but the negative effects of corruption sound pretty bad.  They start off with a chance to be slowed when you take damage and progress to damage pools appearing under your feet (only affecting you), getting occasionally chased around by a Thing From Beyond, and finally to increased damage taken and reduced healing taken.
So you're saying that Blizzard hates healers.   ;)
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on October 23, 2019, 09:36:10 PM
Here's the feedback post with some additional details: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/corrupted-items-details-and-feedback/341493

Most notably:

* The legendary cloak will negate some corruption, more as you level it up.
* This system replaces both warforging and titanforging.
* This system is only for this tier.

Looking over the forum feedback (some positive, some negative), the chief complaint is that this system is "too much RNG"(*).  I think the most notable difference is that while you currently want every slot in your gear set to warforge and titanforge, you will only want a few slots to be corrupted.  So something like 75% of the gear you wear will be just the base item from the loot table.  (Well, except for sockets, which are very strong and players know it.  And tertiaries, which are very strong but don't impact your DPS so players don't care.  But, baby steps.)

(*) This is a really common disconnect between designers and players in many games.  Designers know that if you roll lots of dice independently, it reduces the statistical effect of RNG on player power.  Players frequently zero in on how unlikely it is that all of the dice will line up in their favor at the same time, and see lots of independent rolls as increasing RNG.  I think ultimately designers need to meet players where they are on this issue even if players are wrong... though it's possibly only a vocal minority who feel really strongly about it.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Snique on October 24, 2019, 05:54:23 AM
I hate this instinctively, and will probably hate it more in practice. The core problem, as I see it, is that the bell curve isn't equal. Imagine that you get a good outcome - the positive side of the curve. What happens? Maybe you kill the boss faster, but you were going to kill it anyway. Maybe the tank doesn't die in a situation where they would have anyway, but that doesn't mean you win the fight. In the overall scope of things, the impact of a beneficial effect isn't that impactful.

But on the other side? The tank dies where they wouldn't have otherwise? That's a wipe. The cascade effect is much larger. Even if both outcomes are equally likely, the impact is WILDLY disproportional. I assume that basically no edge teams are going to take corrupted tanks or healers because when you're in the single-digit percent of beating a fight you can't risk losing that slim edge.

I don't raid at that level, but even on the M+ I do run I'm often pushing to the edge of what I can do. I hate healing tanks who take that trait that gives you a health benefit until you fall below 35% at which point your health falls off a goddamn cliff. It doesn't happen often, but when it does it's usually a wipe.

DPS probably won't care. On the good side you'll be #1 on the charts; on the bad side you'll fall to #3 or 4 but the healers will save you anyway. :(
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Piralyn on October 24, 2019, 08:02:43 AM
Here's the feedback post with some additional details: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/corrupted-items-details-and-feedback/341493

Most notably:

* The legendary cloak will negate some corruption, more as you level it up.
* This system replaces both warforging and titanforging.
* This system is only for this tier.

Looking over the forum feedback (some positive, some negative), the chief complaint is that this system is "too much RNG"(*).  I think the most notable difference is that while you currently want every slot in your gear set to warforge and titanforge, you will only want a few slots to be corrupted.  So something like 75% of the gear you wear will be just the base item from the loot table.  (Well, except for sockets, which are very strong and players know it.  And tertiaries, which are very strong but don't impact your DPS so players don't care.  But, baby steps.)

(*) This is a really common disconnect between designers and players in many games.  Designers know that if you roll lots of dice independently, it reduces the statistical effect of RNG on player power.  Players frequently zero in on how unlikely it is that all of the dice will line up in their favor at the same time, and see lots of independent rolls as increasing RNG.  I think ultimately designers need to meet players where they are on this issue even if players are wrong... though it's possibly only a vocal minority who feel really strongly about it.

Yeah... I'm afraid this is A LOT of dice rolls and you will indeed need to line up A LOT of rolls to get it to actually not shoot yourself in the dick. Benthic gear was a bit of a chore to grind because of RNG, but at least you had some control by targeting slots and it being via a currency you could somewhat farm.

With War/Titanforging, yeah, there's a lot of RNG, but when it happens it's objectively good. There's not really a scenario I can think of where I'm going to be mad about a +5 or +15 level item dropping, other than maybe being disappointing it has bad stats for my spec and is therefore a waste--but I wouldn't have given a shit about that item in the first place. This, though? I'm not very enthused about the prospect of getting a 450 weapon or whatever after running a dozen dungeons, just for it to have reduced periodic damage taken and not be able to use it because the corruption effect will kill me on boss fights.

This system--at this prototype phase--basically gives you the possibility of getting the base loot you want but making it something you can't/don't want to use. I'm all for systems that introduce some variety and unique effects, but the chance of randomly proc'ing a shit trait that then also gives you a debuff that will make you more likely to die seems like a bad design.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Piralyn on October 24, 2019, 08:10:17 AM
Upon further review, it looks like A) Weapons can't corrupt and B) You can purify corrupted items at the heart forge "without restriction"

Assuming that you can purify them without it costing much, that helps, but seems pretty contrary to their long running desire for you to "just be able to equip" the items you get.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: jsoh on October 24, 2019, 10:08:29 AM
Minutes since a notoriously cranky healer has put the raid group on blast because everyone's stacking corrupted items and wiping on bosses because of the side-effects: 0

Its like the sparklefeet trinket. But worse.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on October 25, 2019, 10:01:48 AM
Per a tweet from Ion, the random ranges are going away, so I think there will just be a table of possible corruptions with entries like "+2% crit, +10 corruption", "+4% haste, +20 corruption" etc.

I still see complaints about "RNG to get it, then RNG if it's any good" but since the effects aren't slot-locked, I don't think that's really the case.  Instead, you're semi-independently collecting (1) the gear you want, and (2) the corruptions you want, and there's a little puzzle in slotting together the corruptions you want up to your budget.  If gear you want drops with a corruption you don't want, you just purify it.  Since (according to the blue post) the target budget is 2ish pieces, pushing up to 4ish pieces towards the end of the tier, getting a good item without a corruption effect should be fine--more so than getting a non-warforged piece you want in the current system.  Sockets are probably more of an RNG issue than corruption effects.

There is a potential frustration to "I want this piece, and I want this corruption effect, but it doesn't fit in my budget until my cloak gets better, so I have to either bank it or purify it and lose the corruption forever (or push my corruption budget into a more dangerous range)".  This can be mitigated by holding onto non-corrupted pieces in each slot you wear a corrupted piece.

That mostly leaves the potential for people to push their corruption budget beyond what they can play around in a complicated fight.  I'm okay with that level of choice, but I can understand people being concerned about it.

https://twitter.com/WatcherDev/status/1187781236128808961
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Piralyn on November 05, 2019, 12:55:57 PM
Gonna be a while still (https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/raiding-expectations-for-the-holiday-season/354220)

Quote
With the reveal at BlizzCon of the upcoming Shadowlands expansion, we’ve been getting a lot of questions regarding the schedule for the previously announced Visions of N’Zoth content update. To that end, we want to share that Visions of N’Zoth and the raid—Ny’alotha, The Waking City—will go live early next year.

Visions of N’Zoth is making good progress on the PTR, and currently with your help, we have been comprehensively testing the new content along with iterating on new systems like Corruption.

During the holiday season, we want to be considerate of all our players with the release timing of new content. Many guilds are still progressing through The Eternal Palace, and we want to give them enough time to finish the raid and earn their Cutting Edge: Queen Azshara and Ahead of the Curve achievements before opening the new raid. We try to avoid releasing new content tiers during the holiday season so that players are not encouraged to choose between progression and spending time with their families and friends. This also helps ensure us that we’re fully staffed to support any required hotfixes or turning issues that may emerge.

This will also give everyone extra time to enjoy the WoW 15th Anniversary event starting today, so you can play through the limited-time Memories of Azeroth raids and Korrak’s Revenge without having to rush through the festivities.

We’ll have more info on the new raid and content update in the next few weeks, so stay tuned to the forums and worldofwarcraft.com 17 for the latest news as we head into the holiday season.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on November 16, 2019, 09:30:38 AM
Some PTR developments (no blue posts for any of this, I think; numbers are likely to change):

* There is an item called Gouged Eye of N'Zoth which adds a socket to an unsocketed item.  Currently on the PTR you buy it from Wrathion for currency earned by running Horrific Visions.  Given the name, it could conceivably also (or instead) be a drop from N'Zoth.  It's unclear what the restrictions are; I would guess that the target item has to be a piece of BfA gear (not an heirloom) which could have dropped with a socket (not the Heart of Azeroth).

* There are a bunch of raid drop weapons which always have powerful, unique corruption effects in exchange for +25 corruption.

* Purifying an item currently costs a very small amount of the currency you get for running Horrific Visions.

* The Heart of Azeroth now adds 3% stamina at level 71, a new minor slot at level 75, another 3% stamina at level 80, and +1 corruption resistance per level at 85+.  (I believe this is in addition to some amount of corruption resistance from the legendary cloak.)

If you can add a socket to an item, and you don't want corrupted effects in most gear slots (especially with a weapon consuming most of your corruption budget), tertiaries may become the most significant RNG loot effect, particularly leech and avoidance.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=296234/wrathion-vendor-gouged-eye-of-nzoth-wicked-swarmer-vessel-of-horrific-visions
https://www.wowhead.com/news=296250/recent-corruption-changes-in-8-3-negative-effects-no-corruption-on-crafting-gear
https://www.wowhead.com/news=296223/heart-of-azeroth-updates-4th-essence-at-75-purity-of-the-worldsoul-infinite-trai
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on November 19, 2019, 11:16:11 AM
The maximum mythic+ reward in 8.3 will come from a 15 rather than a 10, as has happened a few times in the past.  The maximum per-run reward level will be 465 (heroic +5) and the maximum per-week reward will be 475 (mythic).  Recall that warforging and titanforging will no longer happen.

No word on how mythic+ dungeons will scale up in difficulty.  I would guess a flat +30%, but 8.2 had a couple of surprises in that department.  However, 8.2 added the essences, while 8.3's power creep may not affect dungeons a lot.  (Although being able to add sockets to all of your gear could be as much as a 10% bump, if you grind those out.)  [ETA: it appears to be a flat 45% bump.]

If the difficulty increase vs. gear increase is a net zero, players may have to do somewhat harder M+ content to get the same level of gear relative to heroic/mythic raid gear, depending on how the +10-14 rewards compare to +15.  But the top-end rewards at +15 are five item levels better relative to heroic/mythic raid gear than they are currently.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/increasing-mythic-keystone-dungeon-rewards/368067
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on November 19, 2019, 12:45:42 PM
* The Heart of Azeroth now adds 3% stamina at level 71, a new minor slot at level 75, another 3% stamina at level 80, and +1 corruption resistance per level at 85+.  (I believe this is in addition to some amount of corruption resistance from the legendary cloak.)
The infinite trait at 85+ is not going live, so after neck level 80, AP will be mostly useless (you'll get a few stats from the neck level increases and that's it).

Instead, you can increase the corruption resistance of the max-rank legendary cloak by getting an item "from defeating N’Zoth on Normal, Heroic, or Mythic difficulty, or from fully completing a Horrific Vision with at least one Mask active."  I have no idea what a Mask is.  I'm also not sure whether you'll only be able to get one of these per week or whether you can do both for two.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t//368183/1
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Snique on December 09, 2019, 08:18:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM34-c9fWQ4

This week's Reset spends a lot of time on the new systems of 8.3 which, despite the "for dummies" explainer, I find really confusing. What I get from this is "blizzard are testing out a bunch of things that are likely to be in Shadowlands so it's kind of a massive beta test with time for them to fix things that really don't work before the next big expansion" and "the raid isn't coming with 8.3 and likely not for several weeks afterward because these systems are needed to build up your cloak for that raid".

Also the big AH mount is going away so I need to stop farting around with alts and farm gold. Oy.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on December 09, 2019, 09:28:23 AM
The big AH mount will actually move (in 9.0) from the vendor to the black market auction house.

A lot of people (including Taliesin) have been assuming that this will effectively up the price from 5 million gold to the gold cap (currently 10 million gold minus epsilon), but that's not clear to me.  It depends a lot on the minimum price (which Blizzard hasn't stated, but 5 million gold is a reasonable assumption to avoid buyer's remorse for those who bought it from the vendor) and how frequently it goes up on the BMAH.  If Shadowlands doesn't have a lot of gold inflation, there just won't be a lot of prospective customers.

I don't personally expect the raid to be delayed much after the release of 8.3.  A week is generally the minimum to sort out problems with the patch, but I don't see why they would delay it more than that.  Taliesin's reasoning is that we need time to buff up the cloak to make it powerful enough to run the raid, but that's not how power creep mechanics work in WoW--they are there to make the raid progressively easier from week to week, not as a gating mechanic for getting into the raid.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on December 13, 2019, 09:38:02 PM
8.3 will bring a return of the "kill your own faction in world PvP" mechanics we've seen twice in past expansions.  I'm mentioning it here primarily because while you're doing it, you turn void-black with tentacles, which looks pretty cool.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=299850/nlyeth-sliver-of-nzoth-kill-your-own-faction-for-nzoth-toy-and-title
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Snique on December 18, 2019, 07:21:26 PM
Quote
the new systems of 8.3 which, despite the "for dummies" explainer, I find really confusing

I was delighted by this week's Reset in which Evitel snarks about how simple the system is because it only took "ten minutes and a flowchart" to explain.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: **andius on December 19, 2019, 05:54:39 AM
8.3 will bring a return of the "kill your own faction in world PvP" mechanics we've seen twice in past expansions.  I'm mentioning it here primarily because while you're doing it, you turn void-black with tentacles, which looks pretty cool.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=299850/nlyeth-sliver-of-nzoth-kill-your-own-faction-for-nzoth-toy-and-title

I am hoping that in order to be a target for your own faction that you will have to have warmode turned on.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on December 19, 2019, 01:07:22 PM
8.3 releases January 14, with the normal/heroic raid on January 21.  https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23237904/battle-for-azeroth-visions-of-n-zoth-goes-live-january-14

Quote
I am hoping that in order to be a target for your own faction that you will have to have warmode turned on.
From the wowhead description and tooltips, you can't have the quest without being in war mode, so you wouldn't be able to see or attack players who aren't in war mode (hypothetical hilarious bugs aside).
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Snique on December 19, 2019, 05:19:41 PM
I am hoping that in order to be a target for your own faction that you will have to have warmode turned on.

That is how it is currently on the PTR (according to T&E) and there's no reason to expect that to change on live... modulo hilarious bugs, of course.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Kharvek on December 20, 2019, 10:54:23 AM
Oh shit.  Time to start playing again.  (This actually lines up nicely.  We should be done being crazy at work, and I've gotten caught up on a lot of other games)
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on January 04, 2020, 01:28:08 PM
Miscellaneous notes about 8.3 systems:

* The item that adds sockets to your gear only works on new gear, and not on the first five gear slots.  That leaves 11 slots (10 if using a two-hander) which can be guaranteed a socket with enough effort.

* Corruption resistance from the cloak goes up to 50 at max level, and can be increased slowly after that according to the blue post in November.  You can also get 10 from each of the three new essences for your role, although it's unlikely that all three of them will be among anyone's top four essence choices.  [ETA: it's possible that the essence bonus doesn't stack, making it just 10 from using one of them.]

* There are about two dozen different corruption bonuses, with costs ranging from 10 to 75.  The right way to compare these is by benefit per point of corruption cost; hopefully bloodmallet or a similar resource will have that ready for damage by the time people are having to make decisions.  As a tank I am interested in the bonuses that proc a percentage of your max health as damage to nearby mobs, but unless those turn out to be very good I suspect I will end up just stacking haste bonuses.

* wowhead made a guide to horrific visions.  In addition to being the only way to upgrade the cloak, it looks like a solo path to a high gear level, possibly only five item levels below mythic raid drops--though getting to that point will will probably take quite a while.  The overall structure feels off-kilter to me, and I wonder if there is a limit-and-catch-up mechanism that isn't currently visible on the PTR.  As things stand it seems like optimal progression requires doing three successful horrific visions per week.  While that won't necessarily require a lot of play time compared to grinding lots of AP, it seems kind of high-stakes compared to past endgame reward systems.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=303969/8-3-gouged-eye-of-nzoth-adding-sockets-to-your-gear-details-and-restrictions
https://ptr.wowhead.com/guides/horrific-visions-of-nzoth-overview-objectives-sanity-masks
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on January 06, 2020, 08:43:14 AM
wowhead put out a guide to the N'Zoth Assaults, aka the thing you need to do in order to do Horrific Visions.  The takeaways for me were:

* The raid entrance will alternate each week between being in Uldum and being in the Vale.  That zone has the major assault going on; the other zone has the two minor assaults instead.
* Fly close to the ground in these zones or annoying slowing effects will happen.
* Do the major assault any time during the week to get access to one horrific vision.
* Do the two minor assaults (one during the first half of the week, one during the second half) to get access to a second horrific vision.
* Do mini-visions once per day (via a portal in the zone with the major assault) to get most of what you need for a third horrific vision.
* Mounts and pets.

https://ptr.wowhead.com/guides/visions-of-nzoth-assaults
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on January 07, 2020, 02:34:50 PM
Leftover titan residuum will be converted to silver when 8.3 goes live (in one week).  In the two previous patches it was retained but devalued by a large ratio (10:1, then 30:1), but even with heavy devaluation high-end players were going to a lot of effort to stockpile it.  So this time around you can't keep it.  Income and costs will be brought down to around what they were initially since there is no longer a need for inflation.

At one silver per residuum it won't be worth much gold, so spend it while you can if there's anything you could benefit from.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/titan-residuum-in-season-4/387491/1
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on January 09, 2020, 08:21:51 PM
Lots of specific numbers and dates here: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/what-to-expect-in-visions-of-n%E2%80%99zoth-and-season-4/405981

Of note, the Darkshore warfront will have a heroic mode awarding ilvl 460 loot (heroic raid level), whenever it comes up in the cycle after Jan 21.  (If it's already going for us on Jan 21, we'll have to wait for the next cycle after that, if I read the post correctly.)
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: jsoh on January 10, 2020, 10:33:42 AM
https://www.wowhead.com/news=305230/artifact-power-in-patch-8-3-visions-of-nzoth-6-free-weeks-of-artifact-knowledge

The chart at the bottom is particularly interesting in terms of the heavy nerfing of AP requirements post 8.3, even below level 70.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: jsoh on January 10, 2020, 10:47:46 AM
From a friend:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b9gw_okKtyRZgW_dG1HNYr3EjpI_Oqcy8CDxP3Wu7Kk/preview#

Handy one-stop list of all the new content in 8.3
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: **andius on January 12, 2020, 12:43:47 PM
The Ah change

Quote
Filters - There have been a couple of very useful additions to the filters you can search for.
  • Uncollected Only - This will help search for any transmog, recipes or pets you have not collected yet. Really handy for if you are looking to collect All the Things!
  • Upgrades Only - This is a very simple yet powerful addition allowing you to buy armor and weapon upgrades for your character on the AH. This does not currently work for bags

I assume the Upgrades Only is going to be just item level rather than the more useful is the item an actual upgrade based on the stat/class/spec etc?
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on January 14, 2020, 07:17:19 AM
* wowhead made a guide to horrific visions.  In addition to being the only way to upgrade the cloak, it looks like a solo path to a high gear level, possibly only five item levels below mythic raid drops--though getting to that point will will probably take quite a while.  The overall structure feels off-kilter to me, and I wonder if there is a limit-and-catch-up mechanism that isn't currently visible on the PTR.
It looks like such a mechanism came in just under the wire: the maximum rank of the cloak will be capped at 5 in week one, 6 in week two, etc..  So it won't be possible to get the cloak to max rank until week 11 of the patch.  It's possible (and allegedly not difficult) to do each cloak upgrade quest in one horrific vision run, so being able to do up to three visions each week is a lot of slack.

There is another dimension of the cloak grind, which is corrupted mementos fueling titanic research and later being spent on adding sockets to gear.  There's no obvious limit-and-catch-up on that.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/ashjrakamas-shroud-of-resolve-in-the-weeks-to-come/409480

Also, bloodmallet.com can now chart corruption benefits by DPS per point of corruption, and wowhead class guides have been updated to talk about recommended corruption bonuses and the new essences.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Hotspur on January 19, 2020, 10:09:12 AM
This reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/eqkjaj/macro_to_help_others_by_announcing_rares/  has a great macro instead of running a mod to announce rares in the invasions.  The actual macro is
Code: [Select]
/run a=UnitName('target');b=C_Map.GetPlayerMapPosition(C_Map.GetBestMapForUnit('player'),'player');SendChatMessage(a..' at '..floor(b.x*100)..' '..floor(b.y*100)..' with '..floor(UnitHealth('target')/UnitHealthMax('target')*100)..'%','CHANNEL',nil,1);
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Piralyn on January 22, 2020, 12:52:15 PM
With today's reset, Blizzard has substantially increased the rewards from N'Zoth assault dailies. This will make getting to exalted and earning Vessel of Horrific Visions much more bearable. Here are the new numbers:
    Daily Assault Quests
        Now reward 250 Coalescing Visions (up from 50)
            War mode rewards 275 Coalescing Visions (up from 55)
        Now reward 125 reputation with their respective factions (up from 50 - 75)
    Lesser Vision Daily
        Still rewards 2000 Coalescing Visions on your first complete of the week
        Now rewards 1500 Coalescing Visions for each day completed after. (up from 1000)


Thank god, now we can be done with these god awful dailies sooner.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: jsoh on January 22, 2020, 12:54:20 PM
Did they fix the competing for clickables gameplay? No? Really?

Well then.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: erstyx on January 23, 2020, 10:54:56 AM
They said that objects and mobs should spawn faster now, so that might address it to some degree.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on January 23, 2020, 02:08:05 PM
For today's dailies, statues were easy to find (mostly inside Guo-Lai halls) but caches in Uldum were tough even though they aren't compete-for-click.  So to some extent it's more about spawn rates.  (Still, they haven't had compete-for-click objects in quests in quite a while, and I have no idea why they went back to them.)
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Snique on January 26, 2020, 06:05:27 AM
Having now spent a couple days playing casual world content with one corrupted item... no.

It's HUGELY annoying and potentially painful. I wouldn't take this into an M+ or raid and if someone showed up with it, I'd kick them. It drops a death zone right on top of where you want to be fighting. I can imagine ranged or healers might find this mildly annoying but it's a complete killer for melee or tanks. Eventually I might get enough doodads to uncorrupt things, but likely I'll just get higher level not corrupted gear and forever ignore these things in my bags.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: jsoh on January 26, 2020, 01:35:22 PM
It drops a death zone right on top of where you want to be fighting.

... when you have between 20 and 39 net corruption. I can infer that the item that you have that's corrupted is likely a +35 (or greater) item, and that you have a relatively un-levelled cloak (rank 3 or below).

FWIW, I haven't found the area denial to be a problem in general world questing (as melee). In terms of raids, my advice to fellow raiders has been that if you're about 39 net corruption, then there's a problem, but otherwise you do you. I'm not sure that I've seen anything in the first 8 bosses (on normal, at least) which would make me rethink that position.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Snique on January 27, 2020, 05:24:29 AM
Yeah it's probably +35 and I got it from an emissary quest before I started the cloak line. I have a low-level cloak.

That said, it's a complete negative. It's like saying "yes, I could take someone with a lower ilvl and they might be a better player overall" but particularly for randoms it's just statistically better to take the higher ilvl (or gearscore or mythic score) player. I probably wouldn't kick a buddy of mine if they showed up corrupted but that's not the common experience.

Likewise, I'm glad your raid group has enough margin that it can take on drawbacks. Mine doesn't. I'm f'ed until I get rid of this thing. And that's not even counting fights where there's an "everyone must stand together" mechanic. Dropping a death zone on that is going to cause a wipe and I can't see a reason to do that to any raid group.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on January 27, 2020, 05:57:06 AM
Oh, I see the confusion.  Only you see the death zone and only you are affected by it.

Also, the amount of doodads you need to cleanse a piece of gear is extremely nominal.  Once you get past the intro quests you should almost always have enough corrupted mementos on hand at any given time that spending five of them won't be noticeable.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Snique on January 28, 2020, 05:49:44 AM
Oh, I see the confusion.  Only you see the death zone and only you are affected by it.

Also, the amount of doodads you need to cleanse a piece of gear is extremely nominal.  Once you get past the intro quests you should almost always have enough corrupted mementos on hand at any given time that spending five of them won't be noticeable.

Ah, that makes it MUCH better. I'm still going to toss the corrupted gear that's +5 or less but if it's not "frell the raid" level bad that's a whole new ballgame. I have tried asking MOTHER a couple times to cleanse things but I never seem to have the right doodads, even for toons that have run multiple visions. These are the same doodads you use for your cloak talent tree?
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: **andius on January 28, 2020, 04:23:59 PM
Oh, I see the confusion.  Only you see the death zone and only you are affected by it.

Also, the amount of doodads you need to cleanse a piece of gear is extremely nominal.  Once you get past the intro quests you should almost always have enough corrupted mementos on hand at any given time that spending five of them won't be noticeable.

Ah, that makes it MUCH better. I'm still going to toss the corrupted gear that's +5 or less but if it's not "frell the raid" level bad that's a whole new ballgame. I have tried asking MOTHER a couple times to cleanse things but I never seem to have the right doodads, even for toons that have run multiple visions. These are the same doodads you use for your cloak talent tree?

Yes cost is 5 corrupted mementos
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Snique on January 30, 2020, 05:53:03 AM
Now that I've gotten rid of the corrupted item (upgraded) I realize another big problem with this system - there's an asymmetry in visibility.

When I had a corrupted item, it periodically dropped a death zone. It was big and visible and required me to move/break off combat. There was also probably an upside, like increasing my stats. Increased stats probably meant more DPS but the increase isn't big or visible. If the mob happens to be in a particularly bad position, or is a caster that won't move, then the downside is my DPS drops to 0. That's _very_ visible. Whatever bonus DPS I got from the corruption effect is never going to be as much as the difference between "my average DPS" and "zero."

Many of the neck enhancements give you large visible displays (e.g. big channeled beams of azerite damage). Even if the overall DPS increase is small, it's quite clear that you're doing something and it's having a noticeable effect. This makes them both cool and desirable; I think Blizzard missing this for corruption effects was an error.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Piralyn on January 30, 2020, 06:19:57 AM
I don't think these are any different than essences.

Some of the corrupted effects have HUGELY visible graphics to everyone in the raid. Twilight Devastation sends a giant beam of shadowy death zigzagging forward from the sky to the ground. I've heard numerous people think it was some new boss mechanic when it procs during fights. Infinite Stars causes stars to fall from the sky to crash into your target.

For every Essence with huge visible effects, there are essences without anything noticeable, like Lucid Dreams, or that are completely passive, like Vision of Perfection.

Your one Corrupted item so far just didn't have a big flashy effect. Some are arguably TOO flashy.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on January 31, 2020, 10:26:04 AM
A week ago there was a hotfix to make the damage of Infinite Stars, Twisted Appendages, and Gushing Wound scale with the item level of the containing item, rather than the attack or spell power of the player.  It took bloodmallet a while to catch up to this change, since the charts had to be redone to show multiple item levels.  That work is now done.  Unfortunately a few specs (including balance druid and ret paladin) do not properly display the "DPS per corruption rating" chart correctly; the author says this is due to the lack of a T25 profile for those specs in simulationcraft.

While the common wisdom is that Infinite Stars is a huge outlier even after repeated nerfs, the charts don't show that for most of the specs I looked at.  For the HecticAddCleave fight profile there are often multiple corruption effects with more simulated bang for the buck (because the adds in that profile don't live long enough to build many stacks, and therefore consume lots of stars at low stacks).  For the Patchwerk profile, Infinite Stars is sometimes on top, but not always; Gushing Wound seems to be the most frequent competitor.  The weirdest case I found was beast mastery hunter, where Severe (increased critical strike) simulates as a strong effect for both fight profiles; normally the stat-enhancing corruption effects are far down the list.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on February 12, 2020, 08:34:14 AM
There was another round of corruption tuning with yesterday's reset, including the doubling of Void Ritual and the nerfing of Echoing Void.  It looks like bloodmallet's charts have caught up to the changes.

Looking at the HecticAddCleave charts, Twilight Devastation and Gushing Wound seem strong, with stat corruptions sometimes being competitive (most commonly haste and crit).  Lash of the Void looks super strong if it applies to your spec (it only appears on a particular fist weapon).  For the Patchwerk charts, the same corruptions are generally strong, but Infinite Stars usually gets a place in the top three, whereas it's only middling in most of the HecticAddCleave charts.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Snique on February 21, 2020, 07:27:11 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ7zQO7v_yk

Things you hate about 8.3.  Actually just things Taliesin can complain amusingly about. It's no Zero Punctuation but it's funny enough.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: jsoh on February 25, 2020, 05:45:47 AM
Quote
* Explosive Orbs again immediately put players into combat.
* Explosive Orbs can again be tab-targeted.

Developers' note: When testing the  Awakened affix, we found that Explosive Orbs could sometimes prevent players from entering or exiting Ny'alotha Spires and Rifts if their party was in combat inside the instance. To solve this issue, we changed them to not place players in combat immediately. However, this had the unintended side effect of breaking player expectations around tab-targeting Explosive Orbs, so we're reverting their threat-generation behavior and trying an alternate solution.

Well. Thats nice. By my napkin math, it gives them 5 weeks to not fix it properly, before Explosive rolls around again.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Piralyn on March 03, 2020, 08:11:38 AM
Some notable hotfixes today/yesterday:

Quote
March 2, 2020

Classes

    Hunters can again tame Juggernaut pets within the Siege of Orgrimmar raid instance.

Dungeons and Raids

    Ny’alotha, the Waking City
        Prophet Skitra
            [With regional restarts] Prophet Skitra now has 2 intermission phases (was 4 intermission phases) on all difficulties.
                Prophet Skitra now enters intermission phases at 33% and 66% health (was 20%, 40%, 60% and 80% health).
            [With regional restarts] Dark Ritual’s debuff effect now increases by 4% per stack (was 2% per stack) on all difficulties.
                Developers’ note: Especially as raids’ overall damage output increases, many groups are spending a disproportionate amount of time dealing with Skitra’s illusions, and often skipping other mechanics entirely. This change is aimed at making the overall pace of the fight more consistent regardless of raid damage.
        Ra-den the Despoiled
            [With regional restarts] Void Collapse cast time increased to 4.5 seconds on Raid Finder, Normal, and Heroic difficulties.
            [With regional restarts] Reduced the damage of Void Collapse on all difficulties.
            [With regional restarts] Void Defilement duration decreased to 6 seconds on Mythic difficulty.
        N’Zoth the Corruptor
            [With regional restarts] Azeroth’s Radiance now restores 25 Sanity (was 20 Sanity).
                Thought Harvester
                    [With regional restarts] Harvest Thoughts Shadow damage reduced by 10%.
                    [With regional restarts] Harvest Thoughts Sanity drain reduced to 300 (was 400).
                        Developers’ note: We’ve seen extensive use of player immunities to avoid the consequences of certain raid mechanics, and while we want to allow player utility to function wherever possible, we’re wary when specific class compositions feel required. The changes to both Ra-den and N’Zoth are intended to make a wider range of raid compositions feel viable on Mythic difficulty.
            [With regional restarts] Mindgrasp can no longer be interrupted by Priests’ Cosmic Ripple (Talent).

Items and Rewards

    The currency limit for Coalescing Visions has been removed.
        Developers’ note: Especially since the removal of the unique cap on Vessels, we’ve seen a lot of feedback about the inventory clutter of multiple Vessels. By removing the cap on Coalescing Visions, players should now feel free to buy Vessels from Wrathion as needed, rather than stockpiling them in bags.
    Cache of the Black Empire will award 12,500 Coalescing Visions instead of a Vessel of Horrific Visions and 2,500 Coalescing Visions.
    Memory Cube can now only be used in non-instanced areas.
    Fixed an issue that sometimes prevented Manifesto of Madness’ on-use effect from working in Mythic and Mythic Keystone Dungeon difficulties.
        Corrupted Items
            Twilight Devastation’s effectiveness has been reduced in situations where it strikes more than 5 targets. It has been changed as follows:
                Deals normal damage on up to 5 targets.
                Deals 50% reduced damage to targets 6 through 10.
                Shrinks in radius each time it damages a target above 5, causing it to disappear after hitting 10 targets.
        Heart of Azeroth
            The Formless Void’s Rank 3 (Essence) Minor Power should no longer break Rogues out of stealth.
            Corrected an issue with Memory of Lucid Dreams (Essence) where Frost Mages using Glacial Spike and an instant cast Flurry could sometimes have their icicle buff count and visual display not match.

The Nyalotha nerfs/adjustments aren't much other than Skitra not being so tedious. Portal in Vale so you don't have to slow walk out of the underground area when completing the assault is a nice quality of life change.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: **andius on March 04, 2020, 12:12:48 PM
The quest Ny'alotha: MOTHER's Guidance (the raid skip) is rather odd in that you pick it up at the point you have killed the bosses you need to kill for the quest :/
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 12, 2020, 08:50:42 PM
Account-wide essences are coming... sort of.  From the blue post:
Quote
When playing an alt character that is missing Essences that have already been earned on a different character, most ordinary Visions of N’Zoth activities, such as Horrific Visions, Assaults, raid bosses, Mythic Keystone Dungeons, or BFA Season 4 PvP, will award a new soulbound currency – Echoes of Ny’alotha. These Echoes can be brought to MOTHER in the Heart Chamber, and exchanged directly for eligible Rank 3 Essences. While ordinarily each specific Essence must be learned in order to unlock it for other characters via MOTHER, all Essences associated with Nazjatar and Mechagon reputations will be available if any other different character has earned any of the Essences available from that reputation.
No specifics yet on how much of a grind this will be, but it removes the need to do 8.2 content on alts to get their best essences.  (For players who didn't play patch 8.2 and came back for 8.3, the Eternal Palace essence may still be out of reach, and the 8.2 reputation essences will still require some amount of Naz'jatar or Mechagon grinding.)

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/coming-next-week-new-source-for-azerite-essences/468129
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 16, 2020, 07:23:32 PM
Specifics for the aforementioned currency are up in the hotfix notes: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23277654

My impression is that any single option for earning currency is slow (e.g. you'd have to do ten emissaries to buy one essence), but there are a lot of options, so it doesn't seem too bad.  If you just do assaults and visions you'll earn roughly one per week.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 20, 2020, 08:34:45 AM
Free transmog from now until the 24th, while the trial of style is going.

Also, Blizzard has added a 100% XP buff (Winds of Wisdom), lasting through April 20.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23355424
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 17, 2020, 05:25:24 PM
Also, Blizzard has added a 100% XP buff (Winds of Wisdom), lasting through April 20.
This has been extended until the Shadowlands pre-patch: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23355424
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on May 18, 2020, 02:03:25 PM
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/targeted-corruptions-and-faster-cloak-empowerment/529816

* These changes aren't live yet but will go live some time soon (ETA: most of the changes go live with Tuesday's reset)
* Cloak upgrade costs will be reduced so only one vision is required per rank.
* Echoes of Ny'alotha will drop for basically everyone.
* Echoes income and costs are being artificially inflated by 5x so it doesn't matter as much whether you've been stockpiling them.
* Echoes can be used to buy targeted corruptions from MOTHER (ETA: this part may take a bit to go live).
  - Her stock changes twice a week, when the minor stock changes
  - There are example prices in the post, ranging from 3000 for Masterful 1 to 15000 for Twilight Dev 3.
* "Due to a technical limitation, items that have been cleansed cannot be re-corrupted".  This sucks a lot since a lot of high-level gear comes auto-corrupted.  They might be able to fix it.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Piralyn on May 18, 2020, 03:22:21 PM
We have now come full circle back to Valor + Item Level Upgrades, basically.

On one hand, it's good they're mitigating the RNG^2 factor of Corruptions. On the other hand, this is an infinitely more convoluted system than any other Titanforging/Item Level Upgrade stuff.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: jsoh on May 18, 2020, 04:16:17 PM
* "Due to a technical limitation, items that have been cleansed cannot be re-corrupted".  This sucks a lot since a lot of high-level gear comes auto-corrupted.  They might be able to fix it.

My feelings about the rest of the system they've jury-rigged together notwithstanding, this one is a nice kick in the teeth. Nice anti-synergy with the "we'll make M+ chest gear auto-corrupt" band-aid.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: ghoselle on May 18, 2020, 05:01:05 PM
* "Due to a technical limitation, items that have been cleansed cannot be re-corrupted".  This sucks a lot since a lot of high-level gear comes auto-corrupted.  They might be able to fix it.

My feelings about the rest of the system they've jury-rigged together notwithstanding, this one is a nice kick in the teeth. Nice anti-synergy with the "we'll make M+ chest gear auto-corrupt" band-aid.

Also awkward because I don't actually know what of my alt's uncorrupted gear was formerly corrupted. 


Though I do wonder if they are going to put some of the weapon specific corruptions available for general purchase.  Especially that one that does a multiplier of armor to damage that is currently only available on non-druid weapons -- that could be amazing for BAER.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Piralyn on May 19, 2020, 07:05:52 AM
Looks like the Echo changes are going live with maintenance this morning. So, if you had echoes stashed but hadn't bought an essence in the eight hours or so yesterday after they announced this and before going to bed, you are now subject to the inflated cost, so that's cool, I guess.

Additionally, it sounds like there's a huge kerfluffle about alts potentially having thousands and thousands of echoes stockpiled and jumping ahead of people's mains. I think that's a bit overblown, but Pira has probably four thousand echoes or so banked because I never bothered to get the last couple of essences she didn't have that Kyn did and I've been pretty lax about doing stuff on her that would accrue them. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit perturbed at her having a non-trivial head start. Inflating things by a factor of five is supposed to counter this, obviously, but given the amount of echoes alts could have stockpiled if they were even more active than I was on Pira, I'm not sure it's enough. They obviously wanted to avoid adding ANOTHER separate currency, but I suspect a reset of Echoes or an entirely separate currency would have been the best choice here given the significance of this addition and the limitations in acquiring them previously.

The "technical limitation" on being able to apply a corruption to a cleansed piece of gear is going to be a clusterfuck, especially given--as Josh mentioned--that most sources of high-level gear auto-corrupt now, nevermind the fact that there's no indicator that something has been cleansed. So now you're almost actively hoping for the system not to proc just so you can then hope to eventually see the corruption you want on a vendor that rotates an unknown number of possibilities for some amount of currency.

This has to be up there with "turning a raid drop weapon into a transmog item with no warning with level 60 stats on the live server and wondering why people were mad" in the short-sighted fix list.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: jsoh on May 19, 2020, 02:59:16 PM
Corruption vendor is live apparently, and is selling 6 corruptions. I believe there are 54(ish) corruptions in total, so with the stock changing twice a week (and assuming no repeats, lol) looks like the periodicity is about a month.

Which. ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh. whatever. I got outrage fatigue.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: jsoh on May 19, 2020, 03:41:47 PM
Update: Blue post w/wowhead commentary saying that items cleansed "recently" can be recorrupted. Items not cleansed "recently" cannot. Blizzard acknowledges that the UX for this is lacking, and is working on that.

Recently apparently means "prior to reset today". Unclear if they'll ever allow non-recent gear to be recorrupted.

Also: Many reports (including your humble interlocutor) that no corruptions are visible on Mother. Ancedata suggest "do both available assaults"
Also also: Gushing Wounds nerf (by 35%) incoming starting with next reset. It'll be fun if there isn't a gushing wounds available on the vendor for a couple of weeks.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on May 21, 2020, 12:18:52 PM
Our approximately two day national nightmare is over:
Quote
We’re rolling out a hotfix over the next few hours that will make it so that you can apply Preserved Contaminants to corruptible items that were cleansed before maintenance this week.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/using-preserved-contaminants-on-older-cleansed-items/532524

(All other national and international nightmares are continuing as scheduled.)
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Fallowgrey on May 22, 2020, 10:08:31 AM
(All other national and international nightmares are continuing as scheduled.)

My loud, cracked, hysteric laughter after I read this is maybe not the best sign of mental health.  The look on Sweetums' face when he came over to ask me about it was a pretty frightened one.

This is fine.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on May 25, 2020, 09:37:13 AM
A spreadsheet by Dratnos (who is Very Smart) about the best corruptions for each spec and PvE situation, and a reddit discussion thread for it:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/e/2PACX-1vQPlWJC64XVWGyeTxgCi4LLoEm6NLwCnkiTF9JYGGyrBoMqtgE0bwBM54aXrZkIVEEN2OoavfT4Tc5E/pubhtml

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveWoW/comments/gq1aat/cheat_sheet_what_corruption_should_i_buy_all/

I should note that for the targeted audience, corruptions that scale by item level will generally be assumed to be on 475 items.  Raid weapon corruptions like Lash of the Void are outside of our reach at 475, so check bloodmallet for how much it is degraded on a 460 or 445.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: **andius on May 25, 2020, 10:52:57 AM
Is there any place that is keeping track of the Preserved Contaminants that the vendor has sold?
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: **andius on June 03, 2020, 10:07:27 AM
Did anyone correctly predict what the vendor was going to sell?
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Snique on June 03, 2020, 06:16:59 PM
What is required to get Preserved Contamination: Twilight Devastation to show up on MOTHER? It was not there when I went looking and WoWhead was not helpful.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on June 03, 2020, 09:45:03 PM
Contaminants are available on a rotation, changing twice a week (on the Tuesday reset and Friday at 11pm eastern).  Twilight Dev 2 (50 corruption, 10K echoes) was available in the previous cycle.  We have yet to see Twilight Dev 1 or 3 (the 25 and 75 corruption variants) on the vendor yet, so each of those should appear soon, with a good chance that one of them will appear this weekend.

To answer Andius's questions: all of the usual news sites are posting articles when the corruption vendor changes, but I haven't been able to find any page recording all of the historical cycles in one place, and I don't think anyone has had meaningful predictions.  I think the rotation is fixed and four weeks long, so once we've seen three more cycles we should have the rotation.  Here are the wowhead articles for the five cycles so far:

https://www.wowhead.com/news=316142/corruption-vendor-preserved-contaminants-on-sale-for-may-19th-may-22nd
https://www.wowhead.com/news=316193/corruption-vendor-preserved-contaminants-on-sale-for-may-22nd-may-25th
https://www.wowhead.com/news=316218/corruption-vendor-preserved-contaminants-on-sale-for-may-26th-may-29th
https://www.wowhead.com/news=316265/corruption-vendor-preserved-contaminants-on-sale-for-may-29th-june-2nd-twilight-
https://www.wowhead.com/news=316299/corruption-vendor-preserved-contaminants-on-sale-for-june-2nd-5th-severe-iii
https://www.wowhead.com/news=316354/corruption-vendor-preserved-contaminants-on-sale-for-june-5th-9th-masterful-iii

[Edited to add the sixth cycle.  Twilight Devastation 3 is in this cycle, for 15K echoes.]
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: ghoselle on June 16, 2020, 03:21:52 PM
This has the schedule for upcoming corruptions:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/content/9219-Corruption-Vendor-Rotation-MOTHER-s-Homemade-Contaminant-Preserves-Fan-Art
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on June 24, 2020, 12:13:14 PM
MOTHER will shortly sell Malefic Cores for 2000 echoes, repeatable up to the current cloak corruption cap.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/faster-legendary-cloak-upgrades/565241
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: ghoselle on June 25, 2020, 07:52:33 AM
I'm both happy and sad about that. 

At the moment I feel like spinning up an alt takes a mountain of echoes, and beyond the time gated sources, they are really slow to farm.  So it both helps but doesn't help enough.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Piralyn on June 25, 2020, 08:40:27 AM
I'm both happy and sad about that. 

At the moment I feel like spinning up an alt takes a mountain of echoes, and beyond the time gated sources, they are really slow to farm.  So it both helps but doesn't help enough.

I think it's important to note that while this speeds up one of the things that makes alt(s) or newly leveled characters feel behind, it comes with the cost of the other things falling more behind. It will probably help "delay" some of that feeling, since the Cloak's resistance is a very in-your-face measure of where your character is at/behind, but if you spent 2000 echoes on +3 corruption resistance, that comes at the cost of buying specific corruptions, or catching up on essences, etc. Echoes are theoretically less gated than the Coalescing Visions, since you can also get them via M+s or whatever, but it's still a slog, since if you're significantly behind, you're probably not going to get to do high enough M+ to have that be a significant source of income.

I'm not sure what the answer is here. They obviously want/need some kind of progressive power scaling to keep the game moderately interesting for the dry months leading up to Shadowlands, and they can't/couldn't have that be without some sort of incrementally increasing cap otherwise people would have felt compelled to get 8293892 blobs of resistance increases in the first month.

It might be better if they just let you get more than one blob a week from a full Vision clear, up to the current cap. With the coalescing vision increases, it can theoretically be possible to run a ton of visions a week, so this would further help with catch up without the opportunity cost of using echoes. Might be a bit too early to do that now, but seems like a natural progression.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: ghoselle on June 25, 2020, 10:17:02 AM
So part of the issue is that this is also the currency for catching up with essences and corruptions.  So if I were to try to spin up a new Hunter to be reasonable to take to heroic raid, I might be looking at wanting 70k+ echoes (and hunter uses cheap corruptions).  And some of that will be reduced by running visions, and getting lucky on loot drops.  But assuming you are doing a 15-keystone, major & minor assaults, 1 vision, all the daily emissary quests, you are getting about 5k per week.  You are still looking at 2-3 months to spin up a new character.

I mean, they could have done something where the cost varies with cloak level.  So if you are getting your first upgrade, it costs 5, but if you are buying the one that caps your cloak it cost 2500, with scaling in between.  So you could probably get a bunch of levels, but would need to do a bunch of content too. 

I guess the real question is, how much do they want you to be able to catch up?  And I think the awkward bit here is you have possibly 3 different directions you need to be catching up:  essences, corruptions, cloak levels.  And they are all sharing the same catch up currency.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Snique on July 24, 2020, 07:00:50 AM
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23485198/time-runs-short-battle-for-azeroth

New blue post on what to get done, what will go away with Shadowlands.
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on August 31, 2020, 10:58:36 AM
+100% bonus reputation during September.

With this buff up, emissaries reward 3000 rep (up from 1500).  I believe post-exalted rep bags contain at least 4000 gold on average, so the rep amortizes to at least 1200 gold per emissary.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23507733/the-impressive-influence-100-bonus-reputation-buff-returns
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Marco on October 10, 2020, 09:25:34 AM
The Brawler's Guild will be closed (not permanently) during the pre-patch, so if you haven't gotten the Bruce mount from the quest chain, here are some notes and a link to a guide.  The whole thing takes about 90 minutes.

* You'll need other players to be fighting for two of the quest steps.  So bring a friend, use the group finder, or do the chain during the evening when people are more likely to be around.  People helping out can buy Bruce challenge cards to do trivial fights.
* I started with a fresh character, and I had to do one fight (against Bruce) before I could start the quest chain.
* Don't open any brawler's guild pouches from early fights until the quest step to accumulate soul shards.
* You'll need to open three rumble pouches for the step after that one.  There have to be three regular fights between each rumble.  So, do the penguin rumble every few matches and save the resulting pouches.  Or don't; you'll want to reach rank 6 anyway in order to get into the VIP lounge for a later step, and that will require doing more fights if you're starting from scratch.  (For the penguin rumble, make sure not to back up the penguin into a wall or you'll get pecked.  Otherwise it's just a DPS race, not too difficult with current gear.)
* You might want to look up the Ahoo'ru fight; it happens fairly early on in the rotation and it can't necessarily be brute forced.   (If you can kill him in five seconds, or a little longer if you have a knockback, then you win.  Otherwise you have to do his mechanics.)  I also died to the Klunk fight because of the unclear telegraph; you want to be outside of his circle at the end of his cast, not inside.
* You'll have to spend a thousand gold for one of the quest steps.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=289722/brawlers-guild-murder-mystery-questline-and-bruce-mount-8-1-5-ptr
Title: Re: 8.3.x stuff
Post by: Snique on October 11, 2020, 06:18:02 AM
Damn, I wish I'd seen this earlier. Anyone interested in doing this tonight (Sunday) or tomorrow (Monday)?