Deadly Cupcakes

Game Discussion => Theorycrafting and Class Discussion => Topic started by: Marco on January 19, 2017, 08:49:14 PM

Title: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on January 19, 2017, 08:49:14 PM
The 7.2 PTR is up, and wowhead and mmo-champion have notes up on the first build.  There are some interesting systems changes mentioned in the build notes, including:

* Tab targeting will be fixed forever, and everyone will be happy with it.  Really this time.  I'm absolutely not overselling this.
* There will be some reward from earning reputation with Legion factions after exalted, but they're vague about what it is.
* The obliterum forge will be free.  Newly crafted gear which currently starts at item level 815 will instead start at 835.

The wowhead build summary talks about a dungeon called Cathedral of Eternal Night, which I hadn't heard about before, unless it's the name of the pet battle dungeon (also mentioned).  But there's a dungeon journal for it wit four bosses, so I think it's a regular dungeon.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=259398/patch-7-2-ptr-build-23436-updates-new-dungeon-legion-invasion-achievements
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/6264-Patch-7-2-PTR-Build-23436
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on January 19, 2017, 09:13:48 PM
The 7.2 PTR is up, and wowhead and mmo-champion have notes up on the first build.  There are some interesting systems changes mentioned in the build notes, including:

* Tab targeting will be fixed forever, and everyone will be happy with it.  Really this time.  I'm absolutely not overselling this.
* There will be some reward from earning reputation with Legion factions after exalted, but they're vague about what it is.
* The obliterum forge will be free.  Newly crafted gear which currently starts at item level 815 will instead start at 835.

The wowhead build summary talks about a dungeon called Cathedral of Eternal Night, which I hadn't heard about before, unless it's the name of the pet battle dungeon (also mentioned).  But there's a dungeon journal for it wit four bosses, so I think it's a regular dungeon.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=259398/patch-7-2-ptr-build-23436-updates-new-dungeon-legion-invasion-achievements
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/6264-Patch-7-2-PTR-Build-23436

They talked about the dungeon Cathedral of Eternal Night (https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/20355988/world-of-warcraft-legion-what-s-next-panel-recap) at Blizzcon, it is not a pet battle dungeon.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on January 20, 2017, 04:06:05 AM
You know I have to ask: What is a "pet battle dungeon"? Are us pet collectors finally going to come into our own? Will it drop ilvl 960 gear just to spite the raiders?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on January 20, 2017, 08:27:33 AM
You know I have to ask: What is a "pet battle dungeon"? Are us pet collectors finally going to come into our own? Will it drop ilvl 960 gear just to spite the raiders?

Was mentioned at Blizzcon on a pet battle panel but was very light on details. Quintessence's did a blog (http://wowpetaddiction.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/pet-battle-dungeon-speculation.html) post speculating about it
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on January 20, 2017, 09:10:26 AM
It's up for testing on the PTR, so you can either try it out there or wait for someone else to do so and write about it.  (The PTR servers were taken down yesterday evening due to instability and might not be up again yet, so that may delay either approach.)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on January 20, 2017, 09:38:56 AM
* Tab targeting will be fixed forever, and everyone will be happy with it.  Really this time.  I'm absolutely not overselling this.

I has a sad that this is not the actual patch notes text.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on January 22, 2017, 05:08:23 AM
Some new stuff up on Wowhead  (http://www.wowhead.com/news=259466/7-2-roundup-updated-hunter-animations-paragon-reputation-reward-new-order-advanc)
Paragon Reputation Rewards
Players already Exalted with Broken Isles factions earn special satchels for every 20,000 reputation awarded beyond Exalted.

Looks like the paragon rep thing coming in 7.2 is an extra emissary chest every 20k rep. Huh!

The satchels are:
The Wardens (Paragon):  Warden's Supply Kit
Valarjar (Paragon):  Valarjar Strongbox
The Nightfallen (Paragon):  Nightfallen Cache
Highmountain Tribe (Paragon):  Highmountain Supplies
Dreamweavers (Paragon):  Dreamweaver Cache
Court of Farondis (Paragon):  Farondis Chest

There is a special achievement,  Paragon of the Broken Isles, for earning 10 of these reward satchels.
New Order Advancements and Champions
There are two new Ranks of Order Advancements on the 7.2 PTR. Browse a full list of advancements in our database:
Rank 7 lets you choose between a new type of troop or increasing the maximum amount of champions by 1. Cost: 20000
Rank 8 grants new Relics the ability to grant a Rank Increase to a second Artifact Trait. Cost: 30000
There are some new champions coming in Patch 7.2; some of these Champions are classified as  Guardians, granting Bodyguard or Support benefits.
Death Knight: Minerva Ravensorrow
Demon Hunter: Lady S'theno
Druid: Thisalee Crow
Hunter: Nighthuntress Syrenne
Mage: Aethas Sunreaver
Monk: Almai
Paladin: Maximillian of Northshire, Nerus Moonfang
Priest: Aelthalyste
Rogue: Tess Greymane, Lillian Voss
Shaman: Magtha Grimtotem
Warlock: Kanrethad Ebonlocke
Warrior: Darius Crowley, Eitrigg
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: HeidiB on January 22, 2017, 07:34:37 AM
Dang.  I hope I don't have to kill Syrenne to get her as a follower!
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on January 22, 2017, 07:46:13 PM
I just built the Obliterium Forge. It definitely wasn't worth the effort, and I'm not sure how making it free will be worth it in 7.2. You can only upgrade crafted gear, and only obliterate crafted gear. I tried it twice, getting 27 Obliterium Ash for a Dreadleather piece (high-end crafted leather) and 2 for a low-end piece. As the dwarf next to the forge says, you get better results with items that were crafted with rarer ingredients. From a sample size of two, it looks like it will take obliterating about 4 items to get 100 ash which can raise a crafted piece's ilvl by 5. In 7.2, if the highest-end crafted pieces are ilvl 835, it will take destroying 24 items to raise a crafted item to 865. (In 7.1, it takes 40 items!)

I guess this offers some path to higher ilvl gear for folks like me who don't raid, but it does not seem like a good deal.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on January 22, 2017, 08:21:33 PM
I haven't built the forge or done any calculations on the most efficient way to make obliterum; it seems to be a calculation based on reagent cost and the time it takes.  You can obliterate health potions for 1-2 ash, for instance, and they're cheap to make, but that's a lot of clicking.

According to the Undermine Journal, obliterum averages around 2500g per unit on on the AH.  So 20K gold to upgrade an item from 835 to 875 (the new cap in 7.2).  The cheapest raw materials cost might be lower because of the amount of time you'd have to put into crafting and obliterating.

I conditionally agree that crafted armor has been of questionable value in Legion, since even normal-mode raiding tends to outclass the gear you get.  I can see that they're walking a fine line; if it's too good then it becomes a mandatory gold sink or can trivialize their content.  You do get to choose (through trial and error) the stats on the gear you make, and the Darkmoon trinkets can be really good for some specs.

(The new 880 engineering goggles live in kind of a separate crafting space of their own, outside of the obliterum economy.  Only wearable by engineers, not too difficult to make by farming up the materials oneself, although the materials were worth 60K gold or so in the first couple of weeks they were available and are still worth 30K gold now.)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: ghoselle on January 23, 2017, 05:48:39 AM

For leatherworking, the materials efficient means was to craft lots of the cheapest low end bracers.  It just was a lot of clicking and extra time.

It sounds like potions is the cheapest way -- I wonder if its macro'able.


(The engineering goggles I've been doing daily quests trying to get the mats for; and I've 1/6 of the required rare component.  So for me they have been slow to get the mats for.)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: jsoh on January 23, 2017, 06:41:00 AM
For Alchemy, the best bang-for-the-buck IMO was making/obliterating trinkets - I'd get somewhere between 120-150 ash per trinket. Those without a steady supply of blood of sargeras may argue differently.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: erstyx on January 23, 2017, 09:32:40 AM
Note that there are addons that speed up the obliteration process, for example https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/easy_obliterate (https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/easy_obliterate).
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on January 25, 2017, 09:14:22 AM
A few players out there in the world have reached 54 traits in all of their artifact weapons, and have nothing to spend artifact power on.  This situation will become more common in the months between now and patch 7.2, especially for players who don't care about some of their specs.

Unfortunately, there is nothing to do with artifact power items right now except bank them for 7.2 or delete them (which is why it would be nicer if unspent artifact power were represented as a currency rather than items).  Blizzard recently clarified that banking the items will not help you, and plans to address the inconvenience of having to destroy AP items by making them vendorable:
Quote
Note that any Artifact Power tokens acquired before Patch 7.2 will not be usable on an Artifact Weapon that has had its new traits unlocked. If you’ve already reached Rank 54, feel free to use any tokens you earn between now and then on alternate specs; there is no need to stockpile those tokens for Patch 7.2. We’re also planning to apply a hotfix in the near future that will allow the current Artifact Power tokens to be sold to vendors.

https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17614784157#8
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on January 29, 2017, 08:14:46 PM
Preliminary notes on flying in 7.2 are on wowhead: http://www.wowhead.com/broken-isles-pathfinder-flying-guide. Looks like we have more grinding ahead of us. Scroll down about 1/3 of the page for the new material... or start from the beginning if you don't have Broken Isles Pathfinder, Part One yet.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on February 09, 2017, 08:47:18 AM
wowhead has a rundown of the artifact weapon changes in 7.2, based on what is up on the PTR.  The basic idea is:

* You get up to 35 traits in your weapon or more (one rank in the bonus trait), if you haven't already
* You go through a quest line to unlock weapon version 2.0
* All points you spent in the bonus trait after rank 1 are refunded, and your bonus trait goes back to rank 1
* You get access to five new traits in a linear order.  The first of these gives you the power bonus from rank 20 of the old bonus trait, minus the power bonus from rank 1.  (So for DPS specs for instance, you get +10% damage and +25% stamina.)
* The last of the new traits has twenty ranks, and is the new AP sink.

If you have all 20 points in your bonus trait going into 7.2, you'll be able to buy about three of the new traits with the refunded points, as I understand it.  Artifact knowledge will go up to 40 and the trait costs are balanced with that in mind, so they go up pretty steeply.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=260072/7-2-artifact-calculator-updates-artifact-power-trait-ranks-knowledge-ranks-to-40
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Tweed on February 09, 2017, 09:14:16 AM
Preliminary notes on flying in 7.2 are on wowhead: http://www.wowhead.com/broken-isles-pathfinder-flying-guide. Looks like we have more grinding ahead of us. Scroll down about 1/3 of the page for the new material... or start from the beginning if you don't have Broken Isles Pathfinder, Part One yet.

That's not so bad. Essentially it's just a continuation of the story and order hall campaigns; seems like you'll finish those just by doing whatever content they unlock along the way. The real headline that you've buried here is that we get new mounts for completing the achievement. Which is exciting except that the mage mount is stupid and I hate it.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: erstyx on February 09, 2017, 11:59:25 AM
It looks like when the extra chain of traits is enabled, you also get the ability to put a fourth point in an existing three-point trait (so the new max will be 71 points rather than 54 points).
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on February 09, 2017, 12:26:16 PM
Artifact knowledge will go up to 40 and the trait costs are balanced with that in mind, so they go up pretty steeply.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=260072/7-2-artifact-calculator-updates-artifact-power-trait-ranks-knowledge-ranks-to-40

At 5 days a point that is another 45 days before you are earning AP at a nice rate compared with what you need :(
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on February 11, 2017, 08:45:44 AM
I can't quite figure out the math here:

Suppose I have 35 traits in all three of my artifact specs. Is it better to put all new AP into my favorite spec, enjoy the slight improvements as they come along, and then spend the refund for the 36th+ points when 7.2 comes? Or, since 36+ will be purchased with a different kind of points, should I just sell those AP items for gold now?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: jsoh on February 11, 2017, 08:50:16 AM
There is no different kind of points. With 7.2 you'll still be purchasing traits with AP.

Unless you really really want the 5g for each AP cookie, its better to consume all AP now.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on February 11, 2017, 11:33:04 AM
Points you invest in your pre-upgraded weapon will not be wasted.  Someone who goes into 7.2 with a 54 weapon traits will, after upgrading, be a few traits ahead of someone who goes into 7.2 with only 35 traits.

However, new ranks of AK will steadily devalue current AP in playtime equivalent, while the increasing costs of traits will devalue current AP in purchasing power.  For the time you spend acquiring AP now, you'll get sixteen times as much when you reach AK 40 a few months after 7.2 launches.

So the consequences of vendoring all of your AP tokens now would be:

* Right now you won't get the small power bonuses (which do add up, even if they aren't a lot per rank).

* When 7.2 launches you'll likely be 1-3 traits behind what you would have if you had acquired the AP.

* Eventually the difference will fade to less than one trait.

* You'd have some extra gold, though perhaps not a lot of it.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on February 12, 2017, 11:16:46 AM
At 5 days a point that is another 45 days before you are earning AP at a nice rate compared with what you need :(
I've been thinking about this a bit.  One the one hand, I think Blizzard doesn't want people with rank 54 weapons to be hugely far ahead of people with rank 35 weapons, even though they will get 60 million or so AP refunded to them when they empower their weapons.  That's probably why the trait cost zooms up to 15 million right away (a major increase over 1.6 million for trait 35 or even 4.6 million for the pre-empower trait 54).  On the other hand, Andius is right; grinding out traits at 20+ million apiece will feel pretty bad for the first few weeks.

One possible extra variable is that patch 7.2 content could--total speculation here--reward more base AP than we are used to getting now, so that even at AK 25 we're getting more than the 50-100K doses of AP we're used to getting right now.  I looked in wowhead's PTR database for AP items introduced in 7.2 to see if that bears out, but they've created new versions of every existing AP item (because they don't want banked AP items to work on empowered artifacts), so it's very hard to see what's really new.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on February 13, 2017, 05:57:38 AM
At 5 days a point that is another 45 days before you are earning AP at a nice rate compared with what you need :(
I've been thinking about this a bit.  One the one hand, I think Blizzard doesn't want people with rank 54 weapons to be hugely far ahead of people with rank 35 weapons, even though they will get 60 million or so AP refunded to them when they empower their weapons.  That's probably why the trait cost zooms up to 15 million right away (a major increase over 1.6 million for trait 35 or even 4.6 million for the pre-empower trait 54).  On the other hand, Andius is right; grinding out traits at 20+ million apiece will feel pretty bad for the first few weeks.

One possible extra variable is that patch 7.2 content could--total speculation here--reward more base AP than we are used to getting now, so that even at AK 25 we're getting more than the 50-100K doses of AP we're used to getting right now.  I looked in wowhead's PTR database for AP items introduced in 7.2 to see if that bears out, but they've created new versions of every existing AP item (because they don't want banked AP items to work on empowered artifacts), so it's very hard to see what's really new.

The big question for me about the new levels of Artifact Knowledge is how quickly you can learn the new levels I assumed 5 days a level but have not been able to find any information on this.
For alts does the Artifact Research Compendium also increase with the new Artifact Knowledge levels?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on February 16, 2017, 10:16:55 AM
It turns out the numbers we were looking at for AP costs and AK were preliminary and will change significantly in next week's PTR builds.

More interestingly, Ion wrote a long post about the goals of AP, how it turned out in 7.1.x, and how they will address it in 7.2.  Basically, don't expect to be able to completely max out your weapon in 7.2 like some of us are starting to do in 7.1, but do expect players to be closer to each other in weapon power.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753277190#1
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Kharvek on February 16, 2017, 10:22:12 AM
They also revealed the set bonuses and they seem oddly underwhelming.

Obvious tuning, etc, etc, etc.  ...however for rogues the 2-piece is a reduction of a CD on an ability that basically was always up when I needed it, so mild DPS increase on multi-target fights at best, and a 20% damage boost on my 4th/5th most damaging ability compared to the current set which is a 30% boost to my 2nd biggest damage ability.

I could maybe see them making things like set bonuses and legendaries less powerful so there is less stress among players when doing the haves/have not thing....but it starts to swing to make this stuff less exciting.  It's a tricky thing to balance since the more exciting a drop is, the more stressful it is when you don't have it.

I feel like set pieces are more okay with this though since you can LFR for them and spend bonus rolls specifically to try to get them whereas legendaries it's pure wishful thinking.  Also I always find it fun when a set bonus changes how I play my class a bit or brings out certain talents/abilities you might otherwise pass on.

...but again.  Judging this based on the VERY first piece of information is probably quite silly.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: ghoselle on February 16, 2017, 10:43:39 AM
They also revealed the set bonuses and they seem oddly underwhelming.

Yeah - the bear one seemed similarly underwhelming.  The feral one is also targetting our number 5-ish melee ability.

I do really also appreciate sets now being 6 pieces where you can choose 4.  It does make me wonder if we are going to end up in the place for some specs where the optimal gearing is 4T of one tier + 2T of the other tier (like back in the BC days, where ferals wore 2T4+4T6).  Though I suppose legendaries possibly interfere with that.




Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on February 16, 2017, 10:54:48 AM
Legendaries a great idea but they way you get them it not well thought out with the drop rate subject to /RND, the "bad luck" protection as weak that it people ask is it in yet it is clearly not working. Also the items when from super awesome to well it has lots of stats on it, they did balance this but rather than buff the worse up they nerfed the best and buffed the worse. Which while fair made legendaries while great items less than legendary.

Just thinking about it a better way would have been if ever thing you do that could have dropped a legendary would drop a token instead. Have a npc sell a item which when used gives you a legendary ( abit like the items from the timeless isle). If you want a particular legendary then you can buy that one but the cost of it is a lot more than just to a random one. This way you could see the progress you make towards your legendary and if one was "best" or you wanted a particular one you could if you wished say up for it.

I think the idea of it being 4 out of 6 is so you could wear 2 legendaries and still get you 4 piece bonus. There are a lot of pieces you could get to make the mixed set work seeing you have 8 none set slots to work with.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: jsoh on February 16, 2017, 11:56:07 AM
The monk set boni seem... interesting.

They'd almost have to be, since Blizz appears to think that MW is TOTALLY fine mechanically, and requires no FUNDAMENTAL design changes. WHY am I typing like ZIPPY the Pinhead? NO CLUE!
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on February 17, 2017, 04:27:42 AM
A watcher post (https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753277190#detail) about about Artifact Power.
Quote from: Watcher
Artifact Power has been a hot topic lately, both around the community and within the development team. With Patch 7.2 on the horizon, introducing both new artifact traits and additional Knowledge levels, we have been reflecting on the way the system has unfolded during the first months of Legion, and evaluating changes based on the lessons we have learned thus far.

First off, a look back at where we started.

From the outset, Artifact Power was intended to serve two intertwined purposes: First, it offered max-level progression that was not entirely item-driven, along with choices and elements of character customization as players traversed their trait trees; second, it was meant to serve as a universally desired, consistent reward from all types of content.

In crafting the systems that delivered Artifact Power, we weighed the merits of hard caps versus a smoother system of diminishing returns. We had extensive experience with hard caps, through multiple past iterations of currencies like Valor Points and Conquest Points, and wanted to avoid several of the downsides of that approach. For example, a cap inherently feels like more of an expected quota, where missing a week or falling short of the cap puts you clearly, and potentially permanently, behind the curve.

Instead, as everyone knows, we settled on an open-ended system of diminishing returns. Without any hard caps on how quickly players could earn AP, it was essential to have some sort of limiting mechanism on the gap in power between players of different playstyles, and different levels of time investment. We accepted the admittedly complex design of Artifact Knowledge because it solved this problem, effectively reining in the size of this power gap. Players trying to progress past the expected artifact level for their Knowledge would run into those rapidly diminishing returns, while those who played less than that would have Knowledge as an accelerator to help them catch up to the cutting edge. When Emerald Nightmare was new content, while the average raider was at 20 or 21 points, the most dedicated might have been at 24 or 25 – a relatively modest gap.

Now, where things went wrong…

We feel that we made two major missteps with the Artifact Power system that increasingly manifested themselves as we got deeper into Patch 7.1 and 7.1.5. And both of them served to undermine that core goal of ensuring that the gap between players with different levels of time invested into the system could not grow too large.

First, the cost of ranks in the 20-point final trait remained relatively flat, as opposed to the rapid exponential scaling up to that point. This meant that someone who spent twice as much time gathering AP as I did would have roughly twice as many ranks as me. Instead of the 24 vs. 21 gaps we saw in Nightmare, a number of hardcore raiders entered Nighthold with 54 points, while others were just beginning that final progression and found themselves with nearly 10% less health and damage, equivalent to being almost a full tier of gear behind. Players who switched specs or characters along the way found themselves in a similar position. The power gap was larger than ever before, which created a sense of obligation and a number of negative social pressures that the system had previously tried to minimize. In short: We’re not at all happy with how this worked out.

A common suggestion is to simply reduce the amount of Artifact Power required to fully unlock the artifact in 7.2. This would not solve the underlying problem, but would rather reduce its duration while heightening its intensity, as competitive players sprinted to finish their Artifacts in order to be “ready.” But then we would inevitably tune around that completed power level, and other players would simply be playing catch-up the entire time. And in the long run, Artifact Power would not be serving its intended purpose of ongoing parallel progression. A capped-artifact player who goes a week without getting any item upgrades ends the week literally no stronger than before. Part of the value of the artifact, both for personal progression and guild progression, lies in ensuring that everyone is at least a bit stronger next week than they are right now, and a bit closer to overcoming whatever obstacle stands in their path. Our goal is for Artifact Power to always be of some interest as a reward, whether from a World Quest, or as a consolation prize when failing a bonus roll.

Instead, we are focusing on fixing the mistake of flat cost scaling at the end of the progression, and instead keeping the increases exponential throughout, while also strengthening Artifact Knowledge as a core pacing and catch-up mechanism. These changes should be visible in an upcoming PTR build.

This is done with the primary goal of reducing the power gap based on time investment, while preserving Artifact Power as an endgame reward that everyone values. If the leaders in Artifact Power were only a few points ahead of a more typical player, rather than crossing the finish line when most were just leaving the starting blocks, players with less time to commit would not be as disadvantaged in competitive activities. If a Warlock were choosing between having 48 points in a single spec or 44 points in all three specs if they’d split their efforts evenly, the barrier to playing multiple specs would be significantly reduced. We are still tuning the curve for 7.2 trait costs, but we’re currently targeting scaling such that someone who earns twice as much AP as me will have an artifact that’s only ~1.5% stronger; someone who earns four times as much AP as me should only be 3% stronger. On the whole, this should be a massive reduction in the power gaps we see in the live game today.

The second problem with our initial implementation was that repeatable sources of Artifact Power (Mythic Keystone dungeons in particular) dominated time-limited sources such as Emissary caches and raid bosses. The fact that a large portion of the community evaluates their Artifact Power needs using “Maw runs” as the unit of measurement is ample evidence of this failure. We very recently deployed a hotfix to increase AP earned from Nighthold in order to make raiding, with a weekly-lockout, better compare in efficiency to repeated Mythic Keystone runs. And in 7.2, we’re more thoroughly addressing this issue by adding a significant amount of AP to the weekly Mythic Keystone cache, while somewhat reducing (and normalizing based on instance length) the AP awarded by repeated runs. These changes are being made to narrow the gap in AP earning, and thus power, based on time investment.

All of the above changes are aimed at allowing players the freedom and flexibility to decide how they want to spend their time, and which goals they wish to pursue, while limiting the difference in power between players who arrive at different answers to those questions.

Sounds to me like more grind and if you are not running atleast one Mythic keystone a week then you are doing it wrong.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Edalia on February 17, 2017, 06:04:39 AM
Sounds to me like more grind and if you are not running atleast one Mythic keystone a week then you are doing it wrong.

You got a lot less out of that post than I did. Your conclusion isn't incorrect, but the important takeaway is that if you're not doing everything you possibly can, you won't be far behind those that are. That's the intent, and it also implies that they won't be tuning the next raid for people with full artifacts.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on February 17, 2017, 07:54:00 AM
A fundamental problem with the AP/AK system, which I think Ion would readily admit to, is that it's so complicated that players don't always understand it well enough to react to it rationally.

In 7.1 you can be pretty far behind other players in power if you don't play a lot.  As Ion notes, a lot of players entered Nighthold at 35 traits while others (who typically ran a lot of mythic+ dungeons) entered at 54 traits, getting 10% more damage and a big chunk of extra stamina from their artifact.  But players may not realize how far behind they are on power; instead, they might perceive that they can max out their weapons in not too long and know that they definitely won't be behind then.

In 7.2, there may be less of a power gap between people who play a lot and people who play a little, but if players perceive that maxing out their weapons will never happen, they may imagine themselves to be farther behind than they actually are.  Instead of comparing themselves to where insane grinders actually are, which may only be a few traits ahead, they might compare themselves to a hypothetical player with a maxed-out weapon.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on February 17, 2017, 11:10:01 AM
Until they put some real details in, the TL'DR is "we made mistakes and we are going to fix it"

Quote
But then we would inevitably tune around that completed power level, and other players would simply be playing catch-up the entire time.

Doing that would have been bad, as far as I see it artifact power level asks like a soft nerf to the raid (we get more powerful over time relative to the raid)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Snique on February 22, 2017, 06:13:09 AM
In 7.1 you can be pretty far behind other players in power if you don't play a lot. 

This, me, in spades. It's showing up badly in heroics now.

Also nothing about converting all the goddamn dongles to a currency :(
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on February 22, 2017, 01:53:15 PM
The PTR updated and there is new information about AP costs and AK.  The new trait sink (called "Infinite") has 50 ranks and looks basically impossible to max out.  It grants a proc which increases your primary stat for ten seconds, where the strength of the proc goes up with ranks.  This is kind of a weird design which could go awry if players start getting many ranks in this trait, as a larger and larger portion of a players' DPS will occur within these Infinite windows as the ranks go up.

Binkenstein has a spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WUMSQtelc_Hyk181UZJ0GdNvbvRfjWORWud5RfUy9Bk/edit#gid=1181843902) although the PTR graphs don't seem right--they seem to show what would have happened if the 7.2 system were live for the whole of Legion, not what will happen with an assumed release date and a cap on AP up until that point.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=260586/7-2-ptr-build-23623-artifact-knowledge-scaling-infinite-artifact-traits-new-emis
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on February 23, 2017, 08:49:41 PM
A couple of bits of information came out about legendaries today:

* In the dev Q+A, Ion indicated that in 7.2 legendary drop rates would take into account the number of legendaries you've gotten which apply to your current loot spec, rather than the total number.  He didn't say how that new system interacts with bad luck protection.  But the upshot is that you should be able to get the first couple of applicable legendaries for an alt spec faster than you currently can.

* In a follow-up thread, Josh confirmed that you will likely be able to target specific legendaries, sort of, by buying a "Relinguished" item for the slot that legendary lives in and hoping that it procs a legendary.  Again, it wasn't made clear how that interacts with bad luck protection.  Relinguished items are like the Baleful items in Tanaan Jungle and are mostly intended as catch-up gear, but for players who don't need catch-up gear I guess they will also serve this other purpose.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753190241#9
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on February 24, 2017, 10:01:39 AM

* In a follow-up thread, Josh confirmed that you will likely be able to target specific legendaries, sort of, by buying a "Relinguished" item for the slot that legendary lives in and hoping that it procs a legendary.  Again, it wasn't made clear how that interacts with bad luck protection.  Relinguished items are like the Baleful items in Tanaan Jungle and are mostly intended as catch-up gear, but for players who don't need catch-up gear I guess they will also serve this other purpose.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753190241#9

Very "sort of" while your target a slot it seems to be to be a double dose of /RNG. Once for it to get it to proc a legendary and the second for it to be the one you want. This is not a very good "fix", great for a catch up or getting one in specific slot but not a that good for targeting a specific legendary.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on February 24, 2017, 10:48:12 AM
I think usually there are usually only one or two legendaries applicable to a spec for a given slot, and you can't get the same legendary twice.  So the presumably low chance of proccing a legendary at all seems like more of an RNG gate than getting the right one.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: jsoh on February 24, 2017, 11:12:23 AM
I think usually there are usually only one or two legendaries applicable to a spec for a given slot, and you can't get the same legendary twice.  So the presumably low chance of proccing a legendary at all seems like more of an RNG gate than getting the right one.

The concrete counter-example, that I suspect Andius was thinking about: "I'll buy a ring-slot doodad, in the hopes that I'll get the Life Cocoon ring. Yay legendary! Wait... Its Sephuz".

Fortunately, I already have Sephuz, so I'm "lucky" in this regard.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on February 24, 2017, 01:06:40 PM
I think usually there are usually only one or two legendaries applicable to a spec for a given slot, and you can't get the same legendary twice.  So the presumably low chance of proccing a legendary at all seems like more of an RNG gate than getting the right one.

The concrete counter-example, that I suspect Andius was thinking about: "I'll buy a ring-slot doodad, in the hopes that I'll get the Life Cocoon ring. Yay legendary! Wait... Its Sephuz".

Fortunately, I already have Sephuz, so I'm "lucky" in this regard.

I too was "lucky"
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on February 26, 2017, 08:32:32 AM
A number of cosmetic rewards, including pets, will require the Power Ascended achievement on one class or another.  To get Power Ascended you need to empower your artifact weapon and then buy seven more traits so that you have one point in Infinite.  (You don't have to buy the extra ranks of all of the old 3-rank traits.)  This requires roughly 150 million total AP.  At AK 40 we should be getting about 3 million AP for green world quests, so that doesn't sound so bad.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=260678/power-ascended-artifact-rewards-in-7-2-class-mounts-pets-toys
http://www.wowhead.com/news=260675/artifact-weapons-whats-new-in-patch-7-2
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on February 28, 2017, 08:05:42 PM
In the latest build, artifact knowledge caps at 50, with a multiplier of 55200100%, which is 2208 times what we're getting today.  The AP cost to get from zero to Power Ascended appears to have increased to 187 million, but that's still only 338 base AP or two green AP world quests (at AK 50).  Of course, at five days per rank it will take us more than four months to reach AK 50.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on March 01, 2017, 02:33:48 AM
Has it struck anyone else that we're getting into some serious number inflation with AP and AK? "55200100%"? Come on!

If Blizzard does something like this in future expansions, I think they're going to "squish" the numbers somehow.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on March 01, 2017, 05:56:32 AM
It is their way of making how many Artifact traits you gain less due to the amount of time you farm AP, so if you are doing a little or doing a lot the most important factor in how much AP you are getting it your AK. At some point doing lots of AP farming will give so little VS time as to be pointless but when you gain your next rank in AK it will be worthwhile again.

From a quick look at the numbers if you were getting a trait about every 5 days your are still going to be getting a trait about every 5 days once the new system comes in until you have put one point in the infinite trait

Yes the numbers get big and quickly but even if they do the a similar system in a future expansion it does not matter as they will use a different currency and so could start at 1 again.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 01, 2017, 07:21:26 AM
Number inflation is definitely a weakness of the AP/AK system--trait costs and AP gains quickly get beyond the point of easy comprehension.  It's reasonable to expect Blizzard to extend the artifact system through a third raid tier (Argus), in which case we'll see even more absurdly large numbers before Legion is over.

We could imagine the same functional system, but where AK ranks shrink trait costs instead of increasing AP gains.  To preserve the current properties of the system, gaining AK ranks would have to reduce the amount of AP you currently have on your weapon and the AP awarded by items sitting in your inventory.  I assume Blizzard considered the two alternatives and decided that player psychology would be hurt more by the illusion of having progress taken away than it is hurt by seeing numbers rise into the stratosphere.

A possibly workable alternative would be to reset the point system at tier boundaries, so that when you empower your weapon in 7.2 the trait costs start back around 100 for rank 36 and the AK 25 multiplier drops to 100% to compensate.  I don't really expect Blizzard to do that for 7.2, but they might consider it for 7.3.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on March 01, 2017, 09:55:27 AM
Ooops was not thinking of 7.3 when you said expansion :o

The number are going crazy large in 7.2 no need to look to 7.3 :P. If you earned 4 million at AK25 that would be something like 9 million millions at AK50.

Not sure how they would stop it going totally crazy in 7.3 doing something like they are doing in 7.2 in 7.3 would not fix that but they could hide it abit. I'm going to guess same idea with 7.2 and make some more traits with more Ak and another infinite trait at the end. How they deal with the big number same way they do damage in Diablo and make 2,000,000 show as 2M etc.

While the infinite trait is not meant to be filled it would be interesting to know how many point they consider to be sensibility to have going into 7.3.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 01, 2017, 10:54:38 AM
With the wowhead PTR artifact calculator and a little arithmetic, one can work out when it will stop being worth grinding AP at max AK.

* 43 traits (1 point in Infinite): 2 green world quests
* 52 traits (all 3/4 traits pushed to 4/4): 20 green world quests
* 61 traits (10 points in Infinite): ~200 green world quests
* 71 traits (20 points in Infinite): ~3000 green world quests; next rank is another 900 green world quests

(By "green world quest" I mean 200 base AP or 50,000 AP at current AK; actual green world quest rewards vary.)

So I think most players will land somewhere between 10 and 20 points in Infinite, plus one for any core traits they decide to leave at 3/4.  But we won't get to that point any time soon after 7.2 releases; it will be a gradual climb as we increase in AK ranks.  By the time we get to AK 50, we may already be looking at 7.3 or at least a 7.2.5 systems patch which might change things.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 03, 2017, 10:48:35 AM
wowhead has a post describing the crafted legendaries as they appear on the current PTR.  Of note, they all have three sockets, which probably makes them BIS timewalking pieces.  The procs are purely utility, so unless a spec benefits greatly from a particular secondary stat, they probably won't be interesting for raiding.  However, the leather shoes provide up to +25% movement speed, making them BIS for Ghoselle.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=260762/legendary-armor-whats-new-in-patch-7-2
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on March 03, 2017, 10:56:20 AM
Are the legendary changes (Cord of Infinity, Shard of the Exodar) retroactive or only apply to new drops?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on March 03, 2017, 12:01:52 PM
Are the legendary changes (Cord of Infinity, Shard of the Exodar) retroactive or only apply to new drops?

The change has to be retroactive considering you can only have each legendary drop once, so it is not like you can try and get the new version if you had the old one.

Quote
Legendary Targeting
You can now purchase per-slot tokens that have a small chance to contain a legendary:
Legendary targeting is now done through purchasable items that have a very very small chance to contain a legendary, so while it is technically feasible to target a slot, you are still more likely to get a legendary through regular means.
These items will be called Relinquished (Slot) items and are available for purchase with  Nethershard at your hub on the Broken Shore.
Nethershards are available from many activities on the 7.2 Broken Shore, including Sentinax Beacon Events.

Wow they put something interesting in them make in next to worthless, like it is technically feasible to win the jackpot of a lottery 6 times in a row just it has a very very small chance of it happening!!
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 03, 2017, 02:48:03 PM
If you've been saving rep tokens for 7.2 in anticipation of the new paragon reputation feature, it seems you can get rid of them now.  The tokens you obtain before 7.2 will only work up to exalted.  There is text on the tooltips for the existing items on the PTR indicating this, but not on live.

http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=141870/arcane-tablet-of-falanaar (rep item obtained before 7.2)
http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=147416/arcane-tablet-of-falanaar (rep item obtained after 7.2)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 12, 2017, 09:50:04 AM
wowhead has a nice rundown of the Broken Shore content in patch 7.2.  It sounds quite a bit like the Timeless Isle, plus world quests, plus region-wide temporary buildings.

A big driver for doing this content will be getting revered with Armies of Legionfall to unlock flying.  I'm guessing that Blizzard will also add an attractive reward for the Breaching the Tomb achievement (think Good Suramaritan), as it is no longer required for flying.  Some of the one-time quests for that achievement reward large amounts of Armies reputation (1500 for several of them), so players can work on both at once.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=260962/everything-to-do-on-the-broken-shore-in-patch-7-2
http://www.wowhead.com/news=260926/armies-of-legionfall-7-2-faction-preview
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on March 12, 2017, 10:38:47 AM
AFAICT, unlocking flying is
* explore the new area (easy?)
* defend the old zones via a rotating daily? (also easy?)
* hit Revered with Legionfall (probably a long grind)

Is that right?  To me, rep grinds are usually "you can be OCD and get there 1-2 weeks before everyone else, depending on how much/little they play".
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 12, 2017, 11:02:38 AM
* hit Revered with Legionfall (probably a long grind)
Revered isn't usually too long of a grind, so let's see.  You need 21,000 total rep to get from neutral to revered.  As things currently stand on the PTR as seen by wowhead, it looks like one-time quests will get you about 9000.  Each Legion invasion is worth 1500, but I think those will only happen every few days.  Each day you can get 150 by contributing to a building.  World quests are 75; there are a couple of epic ones worth 500, but they probably won't be available often (I think they might depend on the mage tower being up, for one thing).

So I would estimate 1-2 week of doing everything available.  The breakdown over ten days might be something like: 9K from one-time quests, 4.5K for three Legion invasions, 2K from epic world quests, 1.5K from daily turnins, and the rest from doing about 50 regular world quests (five per day for ten days).

For the "only log in for raid" crowd, you will also get 500 from Tomb of Sargeras raid world quests.  But those won't be available until the raid opens, which won't be for a number of weeks after patch 7.2 comes out.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on March 12, 2017, 11:23:36 AM
* hit Revered with Legionfall (probably a long grind)
Revered isn't usually too long of a grind, so let's see.  As things currently stand on the PTR as seen by wowhead, it looks like one-time quests will get you about 9000.  Each Legion invasion is worth 1500, but I think those will only happen every few days.  Each day you can get 150 by contributing to a building.  World quests are 75; there are a couple of epic ones worth 500, but they probably won't be available often (I think they might depend on the mage tower being up, for one thing).

So I would estimate 1-2 week of doing everything available.  The breakdown over ten days might be something like: 9K from one-time quests, 4.5K for three Legion invasions, 2K from epic world quests, 1.5K from daily turnins, and the rest from doing about 50 regular world quests (five per day for ten days).

For the "only log in for raid" crowd, you will also get 500 from Tomb of Sargeras raid world quests.  But those won't be available until the raid opens, which won't be for a number of weeks after patch 7.2 comes out.

Like the sound of it, seems easy even if you are rather "casual" about doing it. As for it being a "grind" I would be very hard pressed to call it a "grind" :)

Even going to exalted is not going to be that much, more maybe 2 or 3 more weeks after getting to revered?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on March 13, 2017, 06:33:58 AM
Like the sound of it, seems easy even if you are rather "casual" about doing it. As for it being a "grind" I would be very hard pressed to call it a "grind" :)

I forget which CM said it, but it was something like: everyone who plays less than you is a filthy casual; everyone plays more than you is a basement-dwelling no-life troll.  It made me laugh, because I think it's so true.

I remember logging in daily during BC to do the rep-for-flying dailies, and after awhile, that became very Not Fun for me.  But others loved it or thought nothing of it, of course, just as others were like "ugh can't be bothered" for months.  :)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 13, 2017, 09:36:54 AM
I missed that there was an end-of-pvp-season post on March 9, although it didn't say exactly when the season is ending.  I've kind of lost track of how the end of PvP seasons relates to patches, but wowhead seems to think there's still some relation.  So patch 7.2 might be happening pretty soon.

Note that the opening of the Tomb of Sargeras raid is not directly tied to the 7.2 patch release; based on prior dev interviews, I expect a significant delay (at least four weeks) between the patch and the raid.

ETA: per a tweet, the season won't be ending on the 14th (obviously) or 21st.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/20602166/legion-pvp-season-ending-soon
https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/status/841729697792770048
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Snique on March 16, 2017, 11:47:57 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iji8wJytsUg

My favorite pink-haired WoW YouTuber has a couple critiques of 7.2. One being timing - it's going to drop a new raid tier while people are still progressing on this one. Tough call - we are going to have a hard time getting the Ahead of the Curve achievement this cycle, which might be the first time in six or seven cycles we've missed it. On the other hand, Blizzard gets slammed for having people rerun the same content too long. Questions about whether rapid content release now means a long dry spell at the end of this expansion are too hard to judge, imo.

Second being not allowing people to accumulate post-Exalted rep tokens now for upcoming paragon rep. Since all the new items are (I think) cosmetic it seems not to be a big deal if someone gets ahead. That's less true for artifact power, but he underlying complaint is that this is penalizing people for playing now, which does seem kinda dumb.

Then there's a long rant about class mounts which I get annoys people but it's so far removed from things I have to worry about that I just kind of nod along. Maybe Blizzard will even things out.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Edalia on March 16, 2017, 12:47:45 PM
But, as Marco pointed out, the new raid is going to be delayed from the introduction of 7.2. You'll have about another month, and you'll have higher AK and more traits to help get over any humps you may be experiencing.

I am also going to admit I didn't watch the video, because while I don't mind TradeChat, I find videos which are branded as lists of complaints to be not my style.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 16, 2017, 02:54:02 PM
Panser's timing complaint was actually about the 7.2 PTR schedule, not really the live content release schedule.  This was mostly an issue for content creators, for whom 7.1.5 live content and Nighthold competed with 7.2 PTR content, and for not-quite-world-first progression raiders who have to balance mythic progression with PTR raid testing.

It's normal when Blizzard introduces new rewards to make you start earning them after the reward goes live; about the only thing you can stockpile is gold.  This is so that (1) you don't fill your bags with stuff you can't use yet, and (2) everyone who hit the previous reward ceiling starts on an even footing earning the new rewards.  I think the paragon reputation rewards are extra satchels, which are a shot at a legendary, so it's not exactly harmless to let people get ahead by filling their banks with stuff.  I think Panser's discussion of this issue in the video is rude (she uses the word "stupid" at least a dozen times), is weighted too heavily towards her own preference, and she isn't really seeing the other side of the argument.  It's also weird for her to bring up alt friendliness during the discussion, when encouraging players to stockpile rep or AP tokens would be encouraging even more focus on a single main.  Her argument is that the expansion gives you so much to do that everyone is focusing on a single character already, but I don't think that's true at all.

On class mounts, it's worth remembering that it will be trivial to the AP for Power Ascended once you get up near AK 50.  I don't think Panser brought up that issue as a complaint this time (she has in the past); she instead focused on fairness.  But I also think it's dangerous to believe as a design goal that all classes should be equal in each aspect of the game; that way lies checklist content and homogenization.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 23, 2017, 12:36:57 PM
7.2 releases in five days:

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/20602171

Remember that Tomb of Sargeras won't come out immediately with 7.2 (the delay might be 8+ weeks, we aren't really sure) and that Ahead of the Curve will still be available until that point.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: erstyx on March 24, 2017, 09:08:16 AM
Apparently the Broken Shore campaign will be eleven weeks long (see under class mounts, for some reason):

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/6469-Developer-Q-A-Ryan-Shwayder-Patch-7-2-Content (http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/6469-Developer-Q-A-Ryan-Shwayder-Patch-7-2-Content)

Nighthold opened at the end of the Insurrection campaign, right?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 24, 2017, 09:22:15 AM
Not exactly.  Insurrection began with the release of patch 7.1 on October 25.  It lasted nine weeks, so people finished it as early as December 20.  Nighthold opened four weeks later on January 17.  Those dates probably would have been closer together if it weren't for the winter holidays.  (Patch 7.1.5 released on Jan 10, but it wasn't tied to the raid in any way other than "it was nice to have all the class changes in before progression raiding started".)

Completing the Broken Shore campaign will be required for class mounts, which is why it's categorized there in the summary.  It's not required for flying on the Broken Isles, and it won't be a prereq for entering the raid.  I don't know how much of a thematic tie-in there is between the campaign and the raid, so I don't know whether or not we should expect 10 weeks to be the minimum interval between 7.2 and Tomb.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Kharvek on March 24, 2017, 10:47:18 AM
Man I'm so behind on my order resources.  Hopefully there's some new lucrative ways to do this.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on March 24, 2017, 10:53:39 AM
Man I'm so behind on my order resources.  Hopefully there's some new lucrative ways to do this.

Having a battle buddy with the +50 OR and +25 OR equipment per WQ helps a lot: then I just focus on OR WQs, and it's like having a 10% OR buff.  On Thana and Reonna, I did WQs until I got my 2nd legendary, then stopped.  Thana's at 60k OR and Reonna is just over 50k.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 25, 2017, 08:26:45 AM
A couple of updates to things I previously mentioned:

* The new order hall advancements will only cost 25K total resources (10K for seven, 15K for eight), not 50K.  However, note that the 25 new ranks of artifact knowledge will cost a total of 12.5K order resources over four months or so.

* Based on a wowhead article, I said earlier that "each day you can get 150 [Legionfall reputation] by contributing to a building".  In last Thursday's Q+A it was clarified that there is no daily limit to these turnins--each time you accumulate enough war supplies, you can contribute to a building.  So it's like an emissary reward but without the daily limit.  (Also like emissary rewards, you get a satchel which can award a legendary.)  However, you only get war supplies when doing Broken Shore world quests, so players are limited by the world quest supply.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 28, 2017, 06:41:12 AM
Sometimes Blizzard can fit large changes into surprisingly small maintenance windows, or avoid maintenance altogether.  This is not one of those times.  The scheduled maintenance for patch 7.2 is eight hours long, and runs until 5pm eastern time.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: HeidiB on March 28, 2017, 06:42:01 AM
Sometimes Blizzard can fit large changes into surprisingly small maintenance windows, or avoid maintenance altogether.  This is not one of those times.  The scheduled maintenance for patch 7.2 is eight hours long, and runs until 5pm eastern time.
But you can start downloading the patches now!  An exciting and dynamic pacing mechanism...
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 28, 2017, 11:10:05 AM
Servers came back up early, around 3:00pm eastern.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 28, 2017, 10:08:49 PM
Players observed that outdoor enemies are scaling with item level in patch 7.2, with no advance warning.  Ion confirmed this, says the scaling is probably too steep at the moment and will be made more shallow, and also said that they deliberately sprung this change on players without warning in order to get more organic feedback.  I think that last part will likely come to be considered a mistake; we'll see.

(My own experience was that Broken Shore mobs were a lot more dangerous to me than I am used to when I wasn't playing as a tank, but I didn't know that was due to item level scaling at the time.)

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753795863?page=26#post-502

In other news:

* Trilliax was broken to the point of being completely impassable.  It should be fixed now.
* There's something wonky about the GCD for casters.  This is also known, but I don't know if it has been addressed.  Playing on my balance druid, I gave up on using the Emerald Dreamcaster because I couldn't surgeweave reliably, but my DPS wasn't bad when I used my other legendary loadout.  It still felt weird, like something was wrong with the visual feedback.
* The quest flow leading up to empowering artifact weapons has been confusing to some people.  You need to:
  - run the scenario
  - do the quest where you use the book in three places (none of those places is indoors, so if you find yourself in an underground room looking for one of the locations, go outside and loop around).
  - get sent back to your order hall to upgrade your artifact knowledge (use the book to immediately get to AK 26, which seems to be a 4x gain over AK 25)
  - return to the first flight point on the broken shore (there is no breadcrumb for this) and pick up a quest to find a rare macguffin
  - kill mobs on the broken shore until you get it.  If there's a skull up on the map, the rare mob there should drop it all the time; otherwise you should get it pretty quickly by killing anything
  - turn in the quest and get sent to Dalaran to do a per-spec quest line to empower your weapon (requires 35 or more traits in the weapon)
  - after you empower your weapon, go to your order hall forge to buy traits with the refunded points (at least some wowhead guides have been updated with a recommended order for raiders; you will almost always want to start with the first new trait which grants a big bonus)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on March 29, 2017, 03:22:42 AM
Legionfall rep is mostly through a daily "turn in 100 NewLegionfallTokensWhateverTheyreCalled", right?  So we've moved away from "login every 3 days and do a lot, or daily and do a little" model to "login all your alts daily"?

Although I'm not sure what is gated by per-character Legionfall rep, as opposed to nethershards (which is not gated per day).
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on March 29, 2017, 04:22:56 AM
EZ-Mode has been disabled for the Barrels o' Fun WQ: the barrels can't be targeted anymore for a raid icon.

And baby Jaina wept.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on March 29, 2017, 05:26:18 AM
Nethershards are just gated by needing a 5000 to buy a item, which as a very very small chance when used of being a legendary.

As for Barrels o' Fun WQ "fix" surprised they did not "fix" it earlier, but they did make it easier to complete. The quest itself is easy but it sure is boring doing it the "right" way :/
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 29, 2017, 06:58:03 AM
Legionfall rep is mostly through a daily "turn in 100 NewLegionfallTokensWhateverTheyreCalled", right?  So we've moved away from "login every 3 days and do a lot, or daily and do a little" model to "login all your alts daily"?
There's no daily limit on turning in war supplies; you're only limited by how fast you can earn them.  Also, you get 1500 reputation for doing a Legion zone invasion event.  Those don't start until next week and I think only happen every few days, but are going to be a big contributor to Legionfall rep once they kick in.

Quote
Although I'm not sure what is gated by per-character Legionfall rep, as opposed to nethershards (which is not gated per day).
You want revered on one character for flying, but yeah, I don't know of a big reason to do the grind in parallel on a bunch of alts.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Piralyn on March 29, 2017, 12:24:47 PM
I usually don't gripe about patches, but this patch seems like a shitshow so far. The amount of stuff that's broken is pretty staggering: like half the bosses in Nighthold having broken/impossible mechanics afterwards, GCDs being funky, lots of things tried to be snuck in, legendary upgrades not working, legendary flags not being set/reset after looting, etc, etc, etc

The fancy new LOOK AT ALL THIS CONTENT isle was pretty much done in like... an hour? Two? Until some ephemeral point in the future where additional stuff starts happening. The ship that we're supposed to follow around to farm shards spawns mobs that have even less of a drop chance than the regular mobs, and if they do drop, they drop one instead of four to seven like every other random trash mob on the island.

I can't recall a patch this overhyped and this broken for a few expansions, at least.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Kharvek on March 29, 2017, 12:46:35 PM
Yeah.  It briefly seemed smooth but once you peeled back a little bit it was a shitshow.  Usually it's the reverse where you hit some early frustrating things, but most the basic stuff you expect to work, still works.

...this time?  Things seemed good, and then we hit that Trillax issue that just stopped us cold.  Honor was saying there were some pretty terrible bugs with other NH bosses.  I guess Krosus had it so you couldn't soak burning pitch. IE: Every single location spawned an ember and insta-wiped raids.  Aluriel would use *all* her abilities regardless of phase.

It's like they didn't even test Nighthold before the patch went out.  ...or they tested it and development was like "Fuck it, we said we were coming out, we're coming out and we'll have it fixed up over the next few days"  Both of those are shitty.

Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Piralyn on March 29, 2017, 01:00:44 PM
I mean, I get some raid bosses having an issue, but the level of issues that MOST NH bosses seemed to be having is pretty absurd.

I'm less perturbed about that than it feeling really empty content-wise. The thing I keep seeing repeated in a lot of places is: "Man! Those two hours of new content with 7.2 were neat!" I expected to have lots of stuff to do and plow through last night after the raid... but there wasn't really anything. The supposed Nethershard farm was... less effective than anything else. There were apparently groups grinding elites outside the raid instance, but, they apparently hotfixed that to be shit. I have zero interest spending 200 hours to get enough shards to get one epic item, which is further compounded by the fact that only 5 people period can tap mobs out there, even if they're all in a raid or group.

Legionfall Resources to build buildings feels like trying to fill a well with eye drops. At the rate things are going now, it looks like it will take TWO WEEKS for a single building, which will only be up for three days.

Absolutely unreal.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on March 29, 2017, 01:27:26 PM
Legionfall Resources to build buildings feels like trying to fill a well with eye drops. At the rate things are going now, it looks like it will take TWO WEEKS for a single building, which will only be up for three days.

Absolutely unreal.

That is assuming some people do not see the lack progress and stop doing it, next week is invasions which give more rep and are likely quicker. so it likely less will feel the need to go to the apply name broken shore.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Piralyn on March 29, 2017, 01:58:31 PM
From Blizzard:

Quote
We’ve seen some confusion around the availability and timing of various aspects of the 7.2 patch, and we’d like to clarify our plans for releasing the remaining pieces of Patch 7.2’s content:

    Week 2 (next week): Legion Assaults begin, first PvP Brawl becomes available
    Week 3: Chapter 5 of the Class Order Hall campaign unlocks, which activates new followers, new Order Hall upgrades, and class-specific World Quests
    Week 4+: Ongoing story pieces unlock, leading up to the eventual opening of the Tomb of Sargeras raid, and the ability to earn Class Mounts


Several of these pieces tie into the overarching story being told in 7.2: our return to the Broken Shore for vengeance, followed by the Legion’s response, and the eventual buildup toward the assault on the Tomb of Sargeras and Kil’jaeden himself. With the release of Patch 7.2, that series of events is set into motion, but they don’t all occur immediately. For example, the upcoming Legion Assaults are a direct response to our initial attack on the Broken Shore. Those assaults, in turn, prompt some of the later parts of the Order Hall campaign. These events occur in a chronological order, and we want to give players the chance to be there as it happens, rather than having some of it unfold off-screen or rushing it along.

But aside from the narrative, pacing content releases helps with clear direction and player focus. During PTR testing, where we had the calendar advanced to allow for testing of all content in parallel, players were pulled in many different directions from the outset. While the heart of the patch lies on the Broken Shore, Legion Assaults were drawing players back to the original Broken Isles zones, and many Order Campaign questlines sent players to other expansions’ continents. With the content release structure we settled on, Broken Shore can stand alone as the initial focus of attention. We didn’t open the Tomb of Sargeras raid with the patch because we don’t want to rush players who are still progressing through Nighthold, but that same sort of logic applies to nearly all other features.

We apologize that that hasn’t been clear enough from the start, but hope that this will help relieve some concerns.

Which is to say there is indeed shit all to do this week.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 29, 2017, 02:36:39 PM
I kind of feel like Blizzard can't win here (on content; obviously raid-breaking bugs are 100% on them).  If they throw a lot of stuff out the door quickly and then nothing, they get criticized for bad pacing.  If they pace it out, they get criticized for not giving players enough to do in the first dose.

On building progress: Blizzard had to estimate how quickly players would turn in supplies, and they often err conservatively on these estimates because they can buff contribution speed but they can't as  easily nerf it.  I will be surprised if they don't buff that soon.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: jsoh on March 29, 2017, 02:52:00 PM
HOT TAEK INCOMING

I don't give a shit about content, pacing of content, or other where's my content issues (sorry Pira). What I'm sitting here gobsmacked about is the staggering, mind-bending, belief-suspending, game-breaking bugs that they've gone live with. AGAIN. Not _even_ the NH bullshit (I hear Mythic Aluriel has invisible fire), but the really goddamn simple things like... breaking Chi Burst/{Frost, Arcane} Orb/Divine Storm. Like. Signature fracking spells of specs that just do not work.

Do they even _have_ a QA department over there anymore? Amateurs around the world would be offended to call this amateur hour.

The arrogant bullshit that they pulled with mobs and ilvl scaling was just the poop emoji on top of this delightful crap sammich. They can wax rhapsodic about wanting an ORGANIC and FREE-RANGE experience, without allowing our PRE-CONCIEVED notions to POLLUTE the INTEGRITY of their design, but its all post-hoc spin from someone who realizes that their pants are on fucking fire and are looking around for a hose. Its like some PHB was sitting around, trying to think of the best, most efficient way to zero out the team's credibility with the player base.

END HOT TAEK RESUME NORMAL OPERATIONING
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on March 29, 2017, 03:08:50 PM
I kind of feel like Blizzard can't win here (on content; obviously raid-breaking bugs are 100% on them).  If they throw a lot of stuff out the door quickly and then nothing, they get criticized for bad pacing.  If they pace it out, they get criticized for not giving players enough to do in the first dose.

On building progress: Blizzard had to estimate how quickly players would turn in supplies, and they often err conservatively on these estimates because they can buff contribution speed but they can't as  easily nerf it.  I will be surprised if they don't buff that soon.

Yes I can see that but giving us a big patch then the first week giving us little to do is a mistake, time gating makes people unhappy. More to do in the first week even if that means less in the second would to me have made more sense. We hit back at the legion first week (lots to and not just a few more WQ's), second week the "calm before the storm", week three the legion hits back (invasions).

They could nerf is once the build is destroyed just run the line that it needs more repair than it did before due to the damage the legion did. Every time we rebuild they could change the amount needed with the reason being the strength of legion assault.

The bugs in NH do rather baffle me, why did they change stuff in the NH when the patch was to do with the broken shore?

It is rather silly when taking gear off makes you more powerful with mobs and ilvl scaling. Taking off one ring seem to work by lowering your ilvl but not reducing your power as much. ( or maybe a trinket if you have a poor one)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 29, 2017, 03:17:35 PM
The bugs in NH do rather baffle me, why did they change stuff in the NH when the patch was to do with the broken shore?
I don't think they made any deliberate changes to Nighthold.  I think (lots of speculation here) that they made some significant changes to the server code, as evidenced by their Dalaran PvP/Nomi event, and it wound up breaking some area of effect spells.  They clearly should have done better testing, but it's doubtful that Nighthold was broken for a really long time on the PTR.  Issues this bad usually crop up because something was broken at the last minute when something else was fixed.
Quote
It is rather silly when taking gear off makes you more powerful with mobs and ilvl scaling. Taking off one ring seem to work by lowering your ilvl but not reducing your power as much. ( or maybe a trinket if you have a poor one)
That's apparently a separate bug on top of the overly steep scaling.  (Shallower ilvl scaling has already been hotfixed in; the bug is supposed to be fixed later today.)

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753795863?page=151#post-3017
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on March 29, 2017, 03:22:58 PM
Do they even _have_ a QA department over there anymore? Amateurs around the world would be offended to call this amateur hour.

Heh.  You didn't play in Burning Crusade, or do you just have a good therapist who blocked out those memories for you?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Piralyn on March 29, 2017, 03:51:25 PM
I kind of feel like Blizzard can't win here (on content; obviously raid-breaking bugs are 100% on them).  If they throw a lot of stuff out the door quickly and then nothing, they get criticized for bad pacing.  If they pace it out, they get criticized for not giving players enough to do in the first dose.

On building progress: Blizzard had to estimate how quickly players would turn in supplies, and they often err conservatively on these estimates because they can buff contribution speed but they can't as  easily nerf it.  I will be surprised if they don't buff that soon.

I don't disagree. I wouldn't expect them to open the floodgates on day one, and I think it's also fair to suggest that if the rest of the patch wasn't such a shitshow, maybe the lack of content wouldn't be so irritating.

I just feel like it's kind of insane to push this as a "major content patch" and in the vein of Timeless Isle/Tanaan, and then have week one be an hour of new content.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 29, 2017, 08:19:01 PM
From today's hotfixes:
Quote
The number of Legionfall War Supplies required to complete construction of the Broken Shore buildings has been significantly reduced.
and the mage tower is now at 26%.

All of the Nighthold bosses appeared to work again in my raid this evening.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/20653889
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on March 29, 2017, 09:32:34 PM
The bugs in NH do rather baffle me, why did they change stuff in the NH when the patch was to do with the broken shore?
I don't think they made any deliberate changes to Nighthold.  I think (lots of speculation here) that they made some significant changes to the server code, as evidenced by their Dalaran PvP/Nomi event, and it wound up breaking some area of effect spells.  They clearly should have done better testing, but it's doubtful that Nighthold was broken for a really long time on the PTR.  Issues this bad usually crop up because something was broken at the last minute when something else was fixed.

This seems really likely since most of the PC spells that were broken were moving, non-targeted AoE spells, and that's also what was most broken in NH (Trilliax's beam and Elisande's rings). The Wanding 101 quest broke with the patch too and it works similarly.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Kharvek on March 29, 2017, 10:06:06 PM
The game breaking bugs thing I'm really curious about.  I don't work on MMO's, but any game I work on no matter how minor the patch?  We test the entire breadth of content.  With an MMO that's a lot, but for a bare minimum smoke test I'd say verifying the main live raids and dungeons would be key.  (EN, ToV, NH, etc)  I wouldn't waste time testing the old shit so if like, there was some game breaking bug introduced in Molten Core?  Yeah, whatever.  Wait for a hotfix.  Shit people are actively working on?  Test the shit out of it. Yup, it's time consuming, but I've seen plenty of times everyone is like "The only thing we changed since our last change TOTALLY won't affect anything"  ...and then you test it and shit that has never, ever, ever, ever broken, breaks.

...so either it wasn't tested?  Or it was tested and the devs were like "Fuck it, make it go live, we'll fix it Wednesday"

Either their QA department dropped the ball, or their production group was a bunch of assholes and ignored their QA group and said make it go live anyway.  (As a former QA person I get really annoyed when people hit bugs and blame QA instantly.  There's SO MANY times QA found it, and development just ignores it)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Piralyn on March 30, 2017, 06:00:30 AM
Based on how suddenly it seemed it went on the background downloader and then scheduled to go live, I'm guessing a little of column A and a little of column b.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on March 30, 2017, 07:37:22 AM
I thought that Blizzard's QA does nothing of the sort re raid testing -- they depend on the PTRs for that.  I have this hazy recollection back from BC that all their QA testing is automated, which is how raid bugs can pop up.  Hence my "why is anyone surprised" response: I'm not trying to be more-cynical-than-thou, but rather, I feel like this is very consistent.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 30, 2017, 07:57:09 AM
I thought that Blizzard's QA does nothing of the sort re raid testing -- they depend on the PTRs for that.  I have this hazy recollection back from BC that all their QA testing is automated, which is how raid bugs can pop up.  Hence my "why is anyone surprised" response: I'm not trying to be more-cynical-than-thou, but rather, I feel like this is very consistent.
I don't have that impression (based on people I know of who have been hired into QA for WoW), and I think the problem is the reverse: they don't have enough automated testing.  In a product this broad, a manual testing cycle is going to be necessarily slow, limiting the amount of testing you can do without slowing changes to an unacceptable degree.  But if they could have discovered via automated testing that a late engine change was going to break moving AOE spells, it's likely that this problem could have been avoided.

That said, if WoW didn't start out with a culture of automated testing and still doesn't have much of it, it would be a huge and not very glorious effort to get to the point of having good coverage, especially with the RNG-driven nature of the game engine.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: jsoh on March 30, 2017, 07:58:28 AM
Consistently bad/insufficient is - I suppose, from an expectation management perspective - better than inconsistently bad/insufficient. Seems like a bad way of running a software project, however.

(I entirely agree with Mitch's coda on his post, but I wasn't prepared to blow hundreds of words dissecting the specifics of the interaction of QA + dev in at-scale code bases on a ranty post)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 30, 2017, 06:56:14 PM
Today's hotfixes include a bunch of changes aimed at making Sentinax farming more rewarding, but I haven't had a chance to try it.

From tweets, broken class abilities like Chi Burst are supposed to be fixed tomorrow morning.  They're still working on the Elisande ring bug (which seems to be not a big deal on normal, but is a big deal on heroic).

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/20653889
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Piralyn on March 31, 2017, 05:38:58 PM
Quote
    Enemies around the Broken Shore will no longer drop Nethershards by default.
    Enemies in the shadow of the Sentinax will drop Nethershards.
    Nethershard rewards from Rare Elites on the Broken Shore have been increased.
    Nethershard rewards associated with Sentinax portals and beacons have been greatly increased in a hotfix that just went live.

Oh boy. No way that's going to be a shit show or anything...
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on March 31, 2017, 06:56:24 PM
Okay.  I tried killing a rare elite and I got 115 nethershards.  I don't feel like that's more than before, but maybe it is.

Then I tried a little sentinax farming with Brynndolin helping.  I got 615 shards in six minutes, including a lieutenant kill.  Most of the shards seemed to drop from higher-level mobs.  After the lieutenant died, the Sentinax went on recharge, but people were able to use these items which summoned blood of sargeras, felslate, or starlight rose nodes on the ground that everyone could loot (well, only miners/herbalists for those nodes).

ETA: also, the broken moving-AOE class abilities are supposed to be fixed now (this morning's fixes didn't work).  https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/status/847983118837362690
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on April 01, 2017, 05:18:34 AM
The thing I find rather sad is 7.2 is only just out and they are talking about 7.2.5 class changes /sigh
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 01, 2017, 06:46:15 AM
Why is that sad?  They're trying to separate out systems-oriented patches from content-oriented patches, so they made very few class changes in 7.2.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on April 01, 2017, 08:17:14 AM
With the patch still causing problems, it's probably worthwhile to note that if you're in Broken Isles Dalaran and hear Northrend Dalaran Rhonin's "Citizens of Dalaran" speech, it's not a 7.2 bug. It's DBM's April Fool's joke.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on April 01, 2017, 08:22:00 AM
As far as actual bugs -- non-prestiged characters are having quick BG queue times right now, but if you're Prestige 1+ there appears to be some kind of bug with the queue sometimes causing 30m+ queue times on both factions right now.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on April 01, 2017, 12:13:37 PM
Why is that sad?  They're trying to separate out systems-oriented patches from content-oriented patches, so they made very few class changes in 7.2.

The sad part we are months into the expansion and they are still fixing classes.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on April 01, 2017, 12:14:37 PM
Why is that sad?  They're trying to separate out systems-oriented patches from content-oriented patches, so they made very few class changes in 7.2.

The sad part we are months into the expansion and they are still fixing classes.

Yeah, but this isn't significantly different from any other expansion in that respect. I think Windwalker monks had four different masteries in MoP.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Snique on April 01, 2017, 02:11:37 PM
Things I didn't know would change in 7.2 - help?

I have a list on my screen of tracked quests. Prior to 7.2 when I clicked on one of those I'd get the quest log opened to that quest. Now I get the map of the quest. How do I make it go back to what it did before? (ETA: apparently this only happens if you, like me, use the large map. I also hear Blizz is planning to take the large map out? WTF?)

I happened to notice that one of my crafts that was at 795 skill had a (3-star) recipe suddenly jump from green to orange and giving 3 skill points. Also, a profession WQ awarded me a skill point. Are these changes general for all professions and WQ or do I need to figure out the magic recipe to skill up each of my professions? I mean, it's nice not having to wait for Darkmoon Faire but it'd also be nice not having to guess what recipe I need to find.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 01, 2017, 02:28:53 PM
I have a list on my screen of tracked quests. Prior to 7.2 when I clicked on one of those I'd get the quest log opened to that quest. Now I get the map of the quest. How do I make it go back to what it did before? (ETA: apparently this only happens if you, like me, use the large map. I also hear Blizz is planning to take the large map out? WTF?)
I don't know if you can make left click do what it did before, but you can right click and choose "Open quest details" to get the quest log page.  I haven't heard anything about Blizzard taking the large map away; where did you see this?

Quote
I happened to notice that one of my crafts that was at 795 skill had a (3-star) recipe suddenly jump from green to orange and giving 3 skill points. Also, a profession WQ awarded me a skill point. Are these changes general for all professions and WQ or do I need to figure out the magic recipe to skill up each of my professions? I mean, it's nice not having to wait for Darkmoon Faire but it'd also be nice not having to guess what recipe I need to find.
That seems like a caching issue, so it might work to nuke your cache directory.  They did make a pass over all crafting professions, I think; from the 7.2 patch notes:
Quote
* Some World Quests that are related to Professions now reward 1 skill point in their associated Profession.
* Most crafting profession recipes will now grant skill-ups to a higher maximum skill level, making it easier for crafters to reach skill level 800.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on April 01, 2017, 03:28:57 PM
Sentinax farming through group finder seems like fairly good nethershard income now. Just gotta make sure your group sets up a bit away from other groups.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: HeidiB on April 02, 2017, 05:13:03 AM
I kept looking for the lightshow...
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 02, 2017, 07:19:12 AM
The Darkmoon Faire is up today, and you can now buy an Inky Black Potion (http://www.wowhead.com/item=124640/inky-black-potion) from Rona in the western woods.  This potion gives a darker nighttime effect for two hours, even during the day.  Very pretty in Suramar.  At 3g a pop it's a pretty expensive and cumbersome way to change a graphics option, but this might be a test bed for a game engine setting or at least a toy in the future.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=261903/darkmoon-faire-in-town-and-inky-black-potion-for-night-effect
http://www.wowhead.com/item=124640/inky-black-potion#screenshots
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on April 03, 2017, 05:32:10 AM
The Mage Tower is now built on the Broken Shore on the Earthen Ring server. I haven't seen any of the Wyrmtongue Chests yet; I'm anxious for them because they can drop a pet.

There's an NPC in front of the Mage Tower who offers quest scenarios. The first attempt is free; subsequent attempts cost 100 Nightshards. What they don't say is that you need 920+ gear to get through the scenario. I tried the Highmountain one, and was faced with a 150M health boss with a 50M health worm assistant with a 3M interruptible attack. Needless to say I had my backside handed to me. Since I have a mere ilvl 870 gear, I'm going to skip these quests.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 03, 2017, 07:51:11 AM
Here are some notes from a 909-geared resto druid who completed their challenge in only 115 attempts.

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=46035/end-of-the-risen-threat#comments:id=2482700
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on April 03, 2017, 08:48:18 AM
I really don't have the gear for this yet (Keana's about 890-ish), but I might make a couple attempts at the healing one for funsies and report back in its own thread at some point.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on April 03, 2017, 09:41:34 AM
I have also read that people with higher ilevel are reporting the mobs have less life, if true something is very wrong with scaling :(
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: jsoh on April 03, 2017, 10:15:54 AM
https://twitter.com/TradeChat/status/848916248473849857
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Fernia on April 03, 2017, 10:27:55 AM
So, is there any point in doing the new Broken Isles content with a main?
After the artifact unlock, it doesn't really look like there is anything Fernia needs.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 03, 2017, 10:34:24 AM
So, is there any point in doing the new Broken Isles content with a main?
Rep for flying, and quest completion (over the weeks) for your class mount.  Aside from that, not really unless you want to farm relinguished tokens in the hope of getting a specific legendary.  I don't think this is really different from Isle of Thunder, Timeless Isle, or Tanaan; usually the outdoor content in patches is pretty optional for people doing normal/heroic raids.

When the Nether Disruptor is built, there will be world bosses which drop 890 loot; I don't think we know the details yet.  With some luck that could result in an upgrade.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on April 03, 2017, 10:47:31 AM
Invasions were supposed to start the week after 7.2 arrived, I think.  Does that mean after Tuesday's maintenance?  (I'm assuming there's one, even if it's short.)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 04, 2017, 07:44:12 AM
Invasions were supposed to start the week after 7.2 arrived, I think.  Does that mean after Tuesday's maintenance?  (I'm assuming there's one, even if it's short.)
Yes.  There was a short maintenance this morning which is over now.  After the 11:00 reset, a quest appeared at Deliverance Point to defeat one invasion for 1500 rep (which should be on top of the 1500 rep you get for each invasion).  There isn't an invasion to defeat yet, though.

Update: we should see the first invasion later today, and there should be at least one per day.  https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/status/849322657657106432
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 04, 2017, 09:31:48 AM
In patch 7.2, you don't get as much artifact power from running mythic+ dungeons as in the past, but you do get a big chunk of it from the chest in your order hall the following week, based on the highest you completed.  Today it was confirmed that the amount of AP you get depends on your artifact knowledge when you open the chest, not when the chest is generated:

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/status/849308963489411072

So at the cost of delaying your reward (both the item and the AP), you can get 30% or possibly 60% more AP by opening it later in the week when you have more artifact knowledge.  As always with AP, any benefits from this kind of shenanigan will fade into insignificance after a few weeks, but people might still want to do it.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on April 04, 2017, 10:52:14 AM
1500 rep per invasion is a heck of a lot more than I'm getting from doing Broken Shore quests. Once these invasions start, is there any reason for me to spend my limited game time on Broken Shore quests?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on April 04, 2017, 11:40:53 AM
1500 rep per invasion is a heck of a lot more than I'm getting from doing Broken Shore quests. Once these invasions start, is there any reason for me to spend my limited game time on Broken Shore quests?

I don't think we know yet how long invasions are up for, so it might be you login and no invasion is up.  So okay, go grind out some Broken Shore quests for rep (or logout and do something better with your time :) ).
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on April 04, 2017, 01:24:47 PM
The Obliterum Forge and PvP gear

Unless you do rated arena or rated battlegrounds, you may not be given the quest pointing you to the obliterum forge for its use in PvP gearing this season, but you can still use the obliterum forge this way even if you have not done this quest ("To the forge it goes...").

This is basically bad luck protection for people who gear solely through PvP, but may also be useful for people trying to collect a PvP appearance from the current season.

How it works
* Only Cruel Gladiator's gear can be obliterated, regardless of item level. Cruel Combatant's gear cannot be obliterated. (Generally you will get Combatant's gear from WQs and random BGs, but occasionally you will get Gladiator's gear.)

* Obliterating a piece of PvP gear will give you ten of a currency called Echoes of Battle.

* For Alliance, a vendor in Greystone Enclave in Dalaran sells tokens that turn into random stat Cruel Gladiator's gear (base item level 865) for Echoes of Battle. One piece costs 80 Echoes of Battle.

* You will also see a vendor selling Elite tokens for a different currency (Echoes of Domination, I believe). You cannot purchase these items. Echoes of Domination are obtained through obliterating Elite PvP gear. (Obtained at 2k+ rating iirc.)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 04, 2017, 02:06:28 PM
The first Legion assault came up in Azsuna at 5:00pm and lasts until 10:30pm.  I just finished now; there were six world quests (all of the "kill demons" variety).  After four of them, I could go do a short quest line culminating in a scenario.  The scenario queue time was around 15 minutes, which I suspect was due to overload on the instance servers.  Having a tank in the scenario seems like a good idea, though not strictly necessary.  I got roughly 2500 nethershards from doing the invasion (all six world quests and the scenario), but no armies rep aside from the quest reward, so I guess I was confused about getting 1500 rep per invasion.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on April 04, 2017, 02:52:37 PM
Assault notifications appear in the mobile app.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on April 04, 2017, 03:56:21 PM
The first Legion assault came up in Azsuna at 5:00pm and lasts until 10:30pm.  I just finished now; there were six world quests (all of the "kill demons" variety).  After four of them, I could go do a short quest line culminating in a scenario.  The scenario queue time was around 15 minutes, which I suspect was due to overload on the instance servers.  Having a tank in the scenario seems like a good idea, though not strictly necessary.  I got roughly 2500 nethershards from doing the invasion (all six world quests and the scenario), but no armies rep aside from the quest reward, so I guess I was confused about getting 1500 rep per invasion.

Does this mean it's the inverse of what I asked before: If all you want is rep, skip the invasions (except for the first one with that quest), and only pursue invasions if you want Nethershards for gear?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on April 04, 2017, 04:07:27 PM
The rewards were otherwise pretty nice.

I got a good amount of AP (one of the WQs gave an 800k AP item, and I got another off the scenario final boss), an 860 item off the scenario boss, and some Court of Farondis rep (Keana's still only Revered with them, but it's good if you're working toward the mounts that come in the paragon rep boxes.)

If you don't care about any of that or nethershards, if the invasion WQs continue to not give Legionfall rep, it's probably at least worth doing one in each zone for the achievement toward Pathfinder.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on April 04, 2017, 04:20:09 PM
Also remember to pick up the Darkmoon faire + rep buff before handing it in.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 04, 2017, 08:02:55 PM
If you've been stockpiling war supplies, spend enough that you're below 1000 before Thursday morning.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753896422
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on April 04, 2017, 08:19:11 PM
M+ this week has a new affix, Explosive. Mobs spawn explosive orbs that if they're not killed in time, explode doing 50% of a player's max health. Afaict they can't be cleaved down/have to be single targeted. They don't have a ton of health tho.

It's... a bit buggy/punishing at the moment. Any pack over about 4-5 guys is pretty rough with spawns. Bosses that spawn adds, their adds will also spawn explosive orbs.

I've read it's specifically buggy on:
* Last boss of Kara on M+ = can spawn an orb on one platform as you're being ported to the next platform.
* Cordana = her wall will spawn multiple orbs
* DHT = orbs will spawn on roots on first boss, on mushrooms, etc.
* CoS = Melandrus' reflections will spawn orbs, on high M+ this can get unwieldy fast.
* BRH = bats on stairs will spawn orbs gg have fun.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on April 04, 2017, 08:27:58 PM
Also, 7.2 brought with it PvP Brawls. The first brawl went live today and is Arathi Blizzard. It uses the Arathi Basin map with a few changes:
* Foggy, with very low visibility. You can't really see from one side of Blacksmith to the other, for example. No scouting from LM, etc.
* Parts of the center lake are frozen over allowing easier access to Blacksmith from other directions.
* there seem to be parts of the map where as a caster you'll get "your vision of the target is obscured" errors when you try to cast on someone too far away.

When you join your first Brawl you get a quest to complete (not win, just, play out to the finish [confirmed. losses count toward this]) 3 brawls. The quest rewards a brawler's footlocker that contains AP and a piece of Cruel Gladiator's gear (again, base ilevel 865).
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on April 05, 2017, 07:21:17 AM
The first Legion assault came up in Azsuna at 5:00pm and lasts until 10:30pm.

So, Azsuna lasted 5.5 hours.

My app is saying Val'sharah is under attack for 5:44 longer, so I'm guessing it was a 6-hr window of attack.  Interesting.  Anyways, closes at 5pm, so I guess no Val'sharah for me.

For me, since Gaillardia is only 810/12k with Armies of Legionfall, it looks like the gating factor for flying will be AoL rep.  I guess that feels right to me: it's not gated on RNG of when a zone assault pops, but rather, on how much I want to grind dailies for rep.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: HeidiB on April 05, 2017, 07:46:46 AM
The first Legion assault came up in Azsuna at 5:00pm and lasts until 10:30pm.  I just finished now; there were six world quests (all of the "kill demons" variety).  After four of them, I could go do a short quest line culminating in a scenario.  The scenario queue time was around 15 minutes, which I suspect was due to overload on the instance servers.  Having a tank in the scenario seems like a good idea, though not strictly necessary.  I got roughly 2500 nethershards from doing the invasion (all six world quests and the scenario), but no armies rep aside from the quest reward, so I guess I was confused about getting 1500 rep per invasion.
I tried this on Jinsu and, although Ghost King Faronaar asked me to meet him at the temple, I did not get the quest following the block of four fel world quests.  Possibly the quest is bugged, or possibly progression is gated on rep or quest completion.  (Jinsu is way behind on rep and quest completion.)  Any guesses?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on April 05, 2017, 08:05:47 AM
Wild guess: has Jinsu unlocked the new artifact powers?  I would think artifact unlocking is unrelated to this, but I'm guessing if you've slogged through enough of the Broken Shore quests to unlock the artifact, then maybe you've also unlocked the scenario followup.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: HeidiB on April 05, 2017, 10:09:00 AM
Wild guess: has Jinsu unlocked the new artifact powers?  I would think artifact unlocking is unrelated to this, but I'm guessing if you've slogged through enough of the Broken Shore quests to unlock the artifact, then maybe you've also unlocked the scenario followup.
Yes, Jinsu's artifact has the circle of four new powers on it.  She has not filled them all in yet.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on April 05, 2017, 10:17:26 AM
Wild guess: has Jinsu unlocked the new artifact powers?  I would think artifact unlocking is unrelated to this, but I'm guessing if you've slogged through enough of the Broken Shore quests to unlock the artifact, then maybe you've also unlocked the scenario followup.
Yes, Jinsu's artifact has the circle of four new powers on it.  She has not filled them all in yet.

Andius has not filled the four slots and he got the quest
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 05, 2017, 08:02:25 PM
Invasions will no longer required for Broken Isles Pathfinder, Part 2 (i.e. for flying).  So if you have explored the broken shore and have done part 1, you should be able to get flying as soon as you reached revered with the Armies of Legionfall.

http://us.battle.net/forums/wow/topic/20753876528#1
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on April 05, 2017, 08:08:23 PM
Blizzard is removing the requirement of doing all 4 zones' invasions for Pathfinder. Here's a blue post: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20753876528

DAMMIT MARCO
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on April 05, 2017, 08:35:30 PM
The first Legion assault came up in Azsuna at 5:00pm and lasts until 10:30pm.  I just finished now; there were six world quests (all of the "kill demons" variety).  After four of them, I could go do a short quest line culminating in a scenario.  The scenario queue time was around 15 minutes, which I suspect was due to overload on the instance servers.  Having a tank in the scenario seems like a good idea, though not strictly necessary.  I got roughly 2500 nethershards from doing the invasion (all six world quests and the scenario), but no armies rep aside from the quest reward, so I guess I was confused about getting 1500 rep per invasion.
I tried this on Jinsu and, although Ghost King Faronaar asked me to meet him at the temple, I did not get the quest following the block of four fel world quests.  Possibly the quest is bugged, or possibly progression is gated on rep or quest completion.  (Jinsu is way behind on rep and quest completion.)  Any guesses?


A hot fix on the 5th (http://www.wowhead.com/news=262070/legion-assaults-removed-from-pathfinder-and-more-april-5th-hotfixes)

Fixed a bug where players were not receiving quest credit if they were in a raid group during the intro Legion Assault quests.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 06, 2017, 07:08:56 AM
So I would estimate 1-2 week of doing everything available.  The breakdown over ten days might be something like: 9K from one-time quests, 4.5K for three Legion invasions, 2K from epic world quests, 1.5K from daily turnins, and the rest from doing about 50 regular world quests (five per day for ten days).
Now that rep is the limiting factor for flying, let's revisit this.  Some things I didn't know:

* You start at friendly, so only need 18K rep to get to revered.
* Invasions don't give rep (aside from 1.5K rep from week two's one-time quest for doing one invasion).
* The one-time quests trickle in over the 11-week campaign, and only a couple were available in the first two weeks.
* The epic world quests are only up when the Nether Disruptor is built, and that's due to come up the first time in a few more days.
* Broken shore world quests seem to show up at a rate of four per day (once every six hours).
* You can turn in supplies more often than once per day, but you'll only get 100 war supplies per day from world quests.
* Order hall missions sometimes yield Armies rep, in quantities of either 250 or 500.

I'm currently at 7785/12000 honored, having been diligent about the world quests but not having done much extra farming of war supplies beyond that.  At 450 per day from world quests (300 for the quests and 150 for the turnin), I would take about nine more days, for a total of about two and a half weeks.  But with the Nether Disruptor coming up this weekend-ish and a one-time quest presumably coming up next Tuesday, I expect it to be two weeks on the nose.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 08, 2017, 07:16:18 AM
The nether disruptor came up about half an hour ago.  Remember to go complete it in order to get the Fate Smiles Upon You buff before using any extra rolls on the new world bosses.  I got a 900 headpiece off the first world boss to come up (Malificus), and it isn't warforged, so I guess that's the base item level (I had heard 890, and my dungeon journal says 890).
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 09, 2017, 08:07:39 PM
The command center is almost built on US realms.  It came up earlier on EU realms.  The dungeon world quest it awarded initially gave a small amount of AP, but now gives much more (3125 base AP, or 5.3 million at AK 28).  Perculia thinks it should also be awarding some Armies rep, but that isn't clear.

I should be able to get flying tomorrow morning (I'm 40 rep away).  I didn't use the Darkmoon Faire buff and I didn't go crazy farming rares or chests; I just did all of the world quests and order hall missions.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 10, 2017, 06:48:37 AM
The dungeon world quest it awarded initially gave a small amount of AP, but now gives much more (3125 base AP, or 5.3 million at AK 28).
Huh, this is actually the order hall mission--called "Challenge Mission" and with no description, which is perhaps an oversight.  The dungeon quest just gives a piece of equipment (in my case an 865 ring).

Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 12, 2017, 05:18:43 AM
The 7.2.5 PTR is up, with development notes: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20754115486#1

Black Temple timewalking is probably the headliner of this patch, but there are also some new micro-holidays and a quest line involving Chromie.  I feel like we got way too much time travel in the last expansion, but not enough content involving Chromie, so I'm conflicted about that.  Also lots of class changes.

Back on live, if you missed it, you can unlock a sixth champion this week by completing a class-specific quest line starting at Deliverance Point.  Some of the quest lines have been buggy but I think it's mostly ironed out by now.  The new champion starts at level 110 ilvl 850, but needs to be leveled up from white quality to unlock abilities and equipment slots.  Most importantly, it comes with a free active champion slot.  After you unlock it you can start the next order hall advancement, which is either a seventh champion slot or a new troop type.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: HeidiB on April 12, 2017, 09:15:20 AM
Something something mindworm mount, something something riddles.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=147835/riddlers-mind-worm

Has this already been mentioned here?  Jinsu's got guildies working on it.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on April 12, 2017, 01:39:17 PM
For those wondering, Kirin Tor emissary quest has been updated to also provide the option of an Armies of Legionfall rep token. Like the Nightfallen option, it only gives 750 rep, but it is there.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 12, 2017, 02:06:25 PM
Once you have flying, Magic of Flight quests (the ones with the slow-moving levitation bubbles) are trivial, which isn't surprising.  More surprising is that Like the Wind quests are trivial--if you show up at the questgiver on your flying mount, it doesn't dismount you, and you can fly right over to the end.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on April 12, 2017, 02:48:55 PM
Once you have flying, Magic of Flight quests (the ones with the slow-moving levitation bubbles) are trivial, which isn't surprising.  More surprising is that Like the Wind quests are trivial--if you show up at the questgiver on your flying mount, it doesn't dismount you, and you can fly right over to the end.

Soon to be "fixed"?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 13, 2017, 02:39:47 PM
Blizzard released some numbers about the artifact challenge: 15.2 million attempts, 135k victorious characters.

That's a lot more participation than I would have expected, actually.  I assume the game is still running in the neighborhood of 5-10 million active players, and after you take out the players who aren't at level 110, don't care about that type of content, forgot to cancel their subscriptions, etc. I wouldn't expect more than a couple million would have tried it, and I would expect more than half of those to immediately give up after the first free attempt.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 13, 2017, 02:52:23 PM
I don't give a shit about content, pacing of content, or other where's my content issues (sorry Pira). What I'm sitting here gobsmacked about is the staggering, mind-bending, belief-suspending, game-breaking bugs that they've gone live with. AGAIN. Not _even_ the NH bullshit (I hear Mythic Aluriel has invisible fire), but the really goddamn simple things like... breaking Chi Burst/{Frost, Arcane} Orb/Divine Storm. Like. Signature fracking spells of specs that just do not work.
Josh Allen mentioned this particular class of bug in his podcast.  Apparently it wasn't broken for everyone all the time, and when the problem came to light, the QA team couldn't find anyone internally who could reproduce the bug commonly on their live characters, and even when they did find someone (which happened to be Josh), it wouldn't reproduce after the character was copied to an internal realm.  They actually had to borrow his character for a few hours to debug it.

(This kind of heisenbug might speak negatively to the quality of their code design, but I know they have a lot of constraints due to network latency that mean everything can't be nice and simple.)

https://soundcloud.com/dgyhu/playerunknowns-buttsalad-dont-get-your-hopes-up-73 (about 80 minutes in).
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on April 13, 2017, 08:06:22 PM
As I'm fiddling around the Broken Isles, I'm picking up a lot of varieties of Sentinax Beacons. They're beginning to take up a sizeable amount of bag space. What's the best way to use these?

- Are they pretty much worthless? I haven't used any yet. Maybe just toss the green ones?

- Keep them just in case?

- Rush to wherever the Sentinax is and use them all as quickly as possible?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on April 13, 2017, 08:30:53 PM
So this week's mythic dungeons have a new second affix, Grievous. It puts a stacking bleed type debuff (up to 5 stacks) on anyone under 90% health. Currently, the debuff persists and continues ticking when people leave combat. A good counter to this (to let your healer drink and so you don't have people at 20% health and 5 stacks fall over) is to use Fighter Chow. It increases your out of combat health regen by 400%. It won't help during the fights, but will help recover from tough fights more quickly.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Kharvek on April 13, 2017, 08:38:35 PM
I looked up the subtlety rogue "20% damage boost" and it isn't as insane as it sounds.  They have an ability called symbols of death which granted 20% extra damage and they heavily changed what that ability did and they just put the 20% from that ability on the base kit of the rogue and made symbols do interesting stuff to their abilities.  So it is a net buff, but it isn't as crazy as a flat 20% increase to their damage.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on April 13, 2017, 08:46:14 PM
@ Winston

The Sentinax beacons are mostly useful in a group (you can usually find them in the group finder) for farming nethershards under the Sentinax. They summon portals that bring extra enemies that can drop nethershards. The green ones summon weaker enemies than the blue ones.

There's an achievement for using a beacon in every subzone, so if you care about nerd points, that's an option.

If you don't think you'll be farming nethershards, there's no real reason to keep them.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 13, 2017, 09:48:56 PM
A possible reason for Winston to care about farming Nethershards:

http://www.wowhead.com/news=262390/kirin-tor-emissary-and-wyrmtongue-treasure-quest-line

(search for "scraps")
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on April 14, 2017, 03:04:50 AM
Thanks, Marco. I had seen that. However, the cost of 2000 Nethershards per random chest is a bit high for me, since if I accumulate Nethershards I'd prefer to spend them on the 5000-Nethershard equipment; the 880 gear will help in getting through the Brawler's Guild. Scraps has already begun appearing on the AH at outrageous prices, which are certain to come down in a month or so.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on April 15, 2017, 04:19:45 PM
Thanks, Marco. I had seen that. However, the cost of 2000 Nethershards per random chest is a bit high for me, since if I accumulate Nethershards I'd prefer to spend them on the 5000-Nethershard equipment; the 880 gear will help in getting through the Brawler's Guild. Scraps has already begun appearing on the AH at outrageous prices, which are certain to come down in a month or so.

One thing you may want to consider once you have unlocked the NPC you can get one key a day for 100 shards.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 16, 2017, 08:06:57 AM
All three broken shore buildings are up (the mage tower is under attack and won't be up for much longer), which means you can't contribute war supplies right now.  I imagine there are some people unhappy about that.

The command center bonus this time around is "Worthy Champions", which allows you to claim a random piece of legendary follower equipment.  Worth a visit to the island if you run order hall missions.  The turnin is inside the command center, which is a small building near the mage tower.

The nether disruptor being up means another broken shore world boss, Apocron.  His loot table has life and iron relics, a ring, and a different armor piece for each armor type.

Quote
One thing you may want to consider once you have unlocked the NPC you can get one key a day for 100 shards.
It may be once every few days, but nothing seems to keep you from doing it on multiple alts, other than having to finish the quest chain on every alt.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Snique on April 17, 2017, 07:50:58 AM
The turnin is inside the command center, which is a small building near the mage tower.

I had a small amount of trouble finding this NPC that I think might have been due to /target not working the way it did pre-7.2.  It felt like it had a much smaller range now than before. That is, I had to be much closer to the NPC before I could /target them - I checked the name spelling several times to be sure I was getting it right then just started wandering around the mountain until the target hit. Anyone aware of a change in how /tar functions?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 18, 2017, 07:42:44 AM
It's world quest week.  Pick up the weekly quest from the adventure journal to get extra order resources.

Apocron (the nether disruptor world boss) came back up after the weekly reset.  His world quest this time is just 1000 order resources, but it's still an extra 500 rep if you don't have flying yet.  You can also get 1500 rep by accumulating 2500 nethershards (you get to keep 2499 of them) for the campaign weekly quest.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on April 19, 2017, 11:19:05 AM
In addition to the shards quest, there appears to be a new (Alliance only?) quest this week. It starts here:

(http://i.imgur.com/c3HTH2H.jpg)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on April 19, 2017, 07:18:35 PM
The tank artifact challenge has been nerfed to be less of a DPS check
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/20653889/hotfixes-april-19
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 27, 2017, 06:37:46 PM
Things I found interesting from today's dev Q+A:

* They do not have an exact date decided for the opening of Tomb, but they estimate "mid to late June".

* If you have all of the legendaries for your loot spec, in 7.2.5 you can get legendaries from random other specs.  (I guess on live you can't get more legendaries at all in that situation.)  If you want to target a second spec you'll have to set your loot specialization to that spec.

* When they abruptly reduce or eliminate a requirement for something, like not requiring invasions for flying, it's not always a major unexpected course correction; they intentionally err on the side of setting requirements too strictly at first because it's easier to relax requirements than increase them.

* Ion was pretty apologetic about the gap between expectations and perception for "the biggest content patch ever."  Objectively they put a large amount of work into it, but the visibility of that work is finely sliced between different class and artifact upgrade quests, and also across time (not just the legionfall campaign, but also brawls, which a lot of players probably don't care about in the first place).

* There is a recent, systemic problem with lag in world zones.  This is supposedly caused by players using addons which manage to convince the system to put lots of players into a single shard, overloading the servers (probably all servers in that data center, because of the O(n^2) scaling of network traffic resulting from n players in one area).  They are trying to figure out the best fix.

* I think this was the first time they've officially said there will be another raid after Tomb.  (They've said we're going to Argus after 7.2, and it would have been really weird if that didn't involve a raid, but they wouldn't confirm that there would be one until now.)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on April 27, 2017, 07:41:51 PM
I'm one of the ones experiencing the lag. I often find that repeatedly quitting and relogging will eventually give me a lag-free connection. Was there any hint in the Q&A as to which mods were causing the problem? I hope it isn't World Quest Group Finder...
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on April 27, 2017, 08:23:57 PM
I hope it isn't World Quest Group Finder...

I really feel like that could absolutely be the culprit.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on April 27, 2017, 08:36:50 PM
Something has indeed changed since yesterday, since WQGF no longer works. In fact, Group Finder no longer works for me at all (though I didn't try disabling WQGF). The symptom is that the Find option searches forever without finding anything.

Sigh. WQGF made the endless questing bearable. I hope the mod's authors can find a work-around.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: HeidiB on April 28, 2017, 04:35:05 AM
Something has indeed changed since yesterday, since WQGF no longer works. In fact, Group Finder no longer works for me at all (though I didn't try disabling WQGF). The symptom is that the Find option searches forever without finding anything.

Sigh. WQGF made the endless questing bearable. I hope the mod's authors can find a work-around.
Does WQGF assume 5-man group sizes?  That could explain the problem with finding groups for world quest world bosses (which broke for me about the time the first new island world boss appeared).
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on April 28, 2017, 05:29:59 AM
There's a group finder eyeball that appears next to blue or purple WQs.  Always worked for me, I think.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on April 28, 2017, 05:33:59 AM
You can find  a group for any world quest just right click on the quest on the sidebar and pick find a group.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: HeidiB on April 28, 2017, 06:02:14 AM
There's a group finder eyeball that appears next to blue or purple WQs.  Always worked for me, I think.
I've had a lot of trouble using this for world bosses since the new island content came out.  What I've seen is a large number of very small groups and two or three world boss sized groups.  It can take several attempts to find a world boss sized group willing to invite me, and founding my own group tends to also be slow.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on April 28, 2017, 06:05:33 AM
Here's a recent blue post about group finder mods.  It sounds like WQGF can be made to work again, but may require an extra click.

http://us.battle.net/forums/wow/topic/20754326419#1

For world bosses, I do sometimes see lots of small groups, which is odd.  Lately I've taken to mousing over each one and looking for the ones that say "auto accept" (an option that the creator of the group can pick).  Even if I get into the group and the boss has just been killed, the group will usually recycle and kill the boss on its next spawn.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on April 28, 2017, 07:51:33 AM
Even if I get into the group and the boss has just been killed, the group will usually recycle and kill the boss on its next spawn.

+1
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on April 28, 2017, 11:54:08 AM
For world bosses, I do sometimes see lots of small groups, which is odd.

I believe this is a WQGF issue. Some of the settings are (were?) off for 7.2 content and people using it are (were?) unable to convert to raid for the Broken Shore raid bosses.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: erstyx on April 28, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Apparently the WQGF dev posted to reddit that he's not going to update the addon to accommodate the changes. He's open-sourced it in case anyone else wants to try, though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/681bdp/group_finder_functions_have_been_restricted/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/681bdp/group_finder_functions_have_been_restricted/)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on May 01, 2017, 08:11:13 PM
This coming week's reset will have some Elisande and Gul'dan nerfs.  They're relatively modest nerfs, but since all of my heroic Gul'dan kills to date have involved three or four people whittling down the last 5% after the third Black Harvest, I think they will be noticeable.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/20653889
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on May 02, 2017, 06:57:26 PM
The reward mechanism for mythic dungeons may see some changes in 7.2.5:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20754468222

If this goes live, failing to make the timer or complete the dungeon won't be a big deal because keystones will downgrade instead of depleting, but beating the timer by a lot won't be as rewarding in terms of immediate drops.  No changes to the per-week chest.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on May 03, 2017, 10:17:04 AM
The command center is up again, and the buff it brings right now (Heavily Augmented (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=240989/heavily-augmented)) grants a chance to reward an augment rune whenever you do a world quest.  The drop rate doesn't seem great (I've gotten one rune in about ten world quests), but it's worth a trip to the island if you're going to do world quests.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on May 06, 2017, 01:20:09 PM
The nether disruptor will be coming up soon (it's at 94%) with the Seal Your Fate buff, whose tooltip says, "Each day the Nether Disruptor is active, you can return to the Broken Shore to complete a quest that grants you a free Seal of Broken Fate."  From wowhead comments, these seals do not count towards your three regular weekly seals, but you still can't go above the maximum of six.  Also, one commenter reports, "At the moment it looks like the quest resets at midnight servertime rather than the daily reset time".

ETA: it's up.  After you get the buff from the upper part of deliverance point, hop down to the nether disruptor to get the first seal.  If you're running high on seals, don't forget you can spend one on the nether disruptor world boss (Brutallus).

ETA: the quest didn't come back up at midnight server time, although if it's midnight PDT I'll be asleep then.

ETA: it did come back some time between midnight and 10:30am server time when I got up, so it's not on the standard 11am reset.

ETA: also, when Cree went to pick up her seal today (not having done it yesterday), it offered her two of them.  So I guess it's not critical that you visit the building during its first quest reset.

ETA: based on the quest text, it looks like you can only get three seals, even though the building will be up for part of tomorrow.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on May 07, 2017, 07:54:53 PM
FWIW, the World Quest Group Finder mod has been updated. It requires a few more clicks to fit with Blizzard's guidelines, but it's still faster and more reliable than Blizzard's own "right-click on the quest name" mechanism.

The only problem I have with group-finding is that you can be dumped into a PvP server without warning, but I suppose that's been an issue since cross-realm group finding became available a few expansions ago.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on May 10, 2017, 04:23:37 AM
Today is the spring balloon festival.  There are marks on the world map where you can take a balloon ride.  As with all micro-holidays, there aren't any mount, pet, or toy rewards.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on May 10, 2017, 04:40:23 AM
Last night, Yungi got his first Paragon rep rank with the Armies of Legionfall. I went to the quest turn-in guy, and saw there were two quests that could be resolved. I picked the first one... and it was the wrong one if I wanted the reward chest. I'm not sure what I got (apart from an AP token), but no chest appeared in my bags. This was disappointing, since I wanted a shot at the rare pet that can drop from that chest.

Take warning: When you have a choice, pick the _second_ quest the AoL Paragon turn-in guy offers.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: erstyx on May 10, 2017, 08:31:02 AM
I think you're supposed to click the bag on the rep bar to get your paragon satchel -- I don't think any NPCs are involved?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on May 10, 2017, 03:58:47 PM
I tried this. Nothing happened.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on May 11, 2017, 08:40:07 AM
My vague recollection is that the usual NPC has a new ? at which point, I got what felt like "the usual 4 WQ faction reward".  I thought the paragon rewards were supposed to be better, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a range of loot values, and I just rolled poorly.  (I've only gotten one paragon chest so far.)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on May 17, 2017, 05:01:40 PM
"Relieved of Their Valuables" is the latest in the Broken Shore questline. It requires you to loot 10 Hidden Wyrmtongue Caches. There are strategies for completing this quest on the wowhead page: http://www.wowhead.com/quest=46769/relieved-of-their-valuables#comments

I'm trying to understand the logic behind giving a quest like this. I don't know how many people want to do that quest on our server group, but let's assume it's 10,000 (which I feel is a conservative estimate). That's 100,000 chests that folks will want to loot. According to that wowhead page, there are 109 chests available to loot, with respawn timers of 10-15 minutes. Assuming that no one will "grief" any chests ever again (an overly-optimistic hope, I feel), there's still going to be a lot of people competing for a small number of chests.

What's the point, Blizzard? Do you want to make all your players feel as miserable as mount collectors feel?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on May 17, 2017, 06:09:49 PM
Yeah, when I heard about this quest I decided I was glad I've been slacking off on this questline so I can do this part later when there's less competition. It's just silly.

Maybe they put it in because there were quests to get rare shards or to open chests in Tanaan & Timeless Isle, but those unctioned differently than the Broken Shores chests do.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on May 18, 2017, 06:32:24 AM
I'm trying to understand the logic behind giving a quest like this. I don't know how many people want to do that quest on our server group, but let's assume it's 10,000 (which I feel is a conservative estimate).  According to that wowhead page, there are 109 chests available to loot, with respawn timers of 10-15 minutes.
There are a lot of possible knobs to tune here: there isn't just one shard for our server group, a cache doesn't necessarily respawn independently of how fast caches are being looted in aggregate, and there's a grace period where multiple players can loot the same cache.

That said, they don't seem to have adjusted the knobs properly, even after a couple of days of live data to work with.  I just flew around the broken shore for about ten minutes as an experiment, and saw zero caches.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: ghoselle on May 18, 2017, 09:35:28 AM
So it took me about a half hour or so to do this quest.

I flew a loop around the island, and found 2 that were awkward to get to, but that I got.
I did some of the quests & killed some named guys.  While I was flying between some of the named guys, a bunch of chests spawned and I got 3.
I flew another loop around the island and found 2 chests.
I was looking up something and debating giving up on the quest, and had 3 chests spawn right under me.


Its sort of unfortunately designed in that it seems to be that the chests respawn all at once every 15 minutes, and that the players consume almost all of them within a minute.  So there are large blocks of time where there is nothing.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on May 23, 2017, 06:56:09 AM
Blizzard has ratcheted the maximum artifact knowledge level down to 40 from 50 in today's hotfixes.  Right now we're at around AK 37 (servers are down, I might be off by one), so we'll hit 40 in just a couple of weeks, while we would have hit 50 a couple of months after that.

This change shouldn't affect the performance of raiding mains very much.  As I noted elsewhere, after the first rank of Concordance, artifact traits have very little effect on your throughput (about 0.1% per trait), so hitting a plateau earlier won't matter.  AK 40 is enough to reach the first rank of Concordance with minimal effort before Tomb opens (see Binkenstein's spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WUMSQtelc_Hyk181UZJ0GdNvbvRfjWORWud5RfUy9Bk/edit#gid=1181843902)).  Psychologically, I don't know that it's a good idea to make AP rewards feel start to worthless in late June as opposed to mid-August, though.

For alts, obviously this change has a big impact (a factor of ~14) on the amount of grinding needed to get Power Ascended for pet rewards at max AK, or to catch up for raiding.  Keep in mind that we have a whole 7.3 patch cycle before the end of the expansion, which is likely to add more AK levels.  Of course it could also add more AP milestones and rewards.

Blizzard's reasoning is that, for some playstyles (particularly alts), accumulating AP before you reach the AK cap isn't very worthwhile, so when the AK cap is far away you're stuck in an endless cycle where it's not worth getting started.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/20653889
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: erstyx on May 23, 2017, 09:29:39 AM
A second change they're making is that when you hit AK 40, you'll be able to buy an AK40 catchup book for your alts (previously, at AK40 you'd have only been able to buy an AK35 catchup book):

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1062164-ak-change-shenanigans/ (http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1062164-ak-change-shenanigans/)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: ghoselle on May 23, 2017, 10:03:25 AM
Oh wow, that's awesome.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on May 23, 2017, 10:42:13 AM
I'm not sure where the "it's not worth getting started" mentality arises. I've been grinding my Death Knight from level 55 to 106 for a month or so, and I've got a Rogue to grind from level 27. That's a lot of gameplay right there. Now it looks like I've got a factor of 14 more grinding for at least the DK to get Concordance. How is this helping me (or anyone else) appreciate the game experience more?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on May 23, 2017, 11:43:07 AM
I'm not sure where the "it's not worth getting started" mentality arises. I've been grinding my Death Knight from level 55 to 106 for a month or so, and I've got a Rogue to grind from level 27.
The claim is that it doesn't feel worth getting started collecting AP until you've reached max AK, when you don't have a deadline.  Obviously it has no bearing on leveling to 110.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on May 23, 2017, 12:14:05 PM
While I understand the "claim" (sarcastic quotes for Blizzard, not for Marco), I don't see it as a realistic claim. There's plenty to do with alts to get them to 110, and plenty of stuff to do on your main to be ready for the alt's "push" to get them to Concordance. This actually has the opposite effect to what Blizzard intended: My best strategy now is to get my alts to 110, then let them sit until 7.3 is released.

14 times longer is a particularly punishing penalty for Death Knight players trying to mount-collect or pet-collect, since we have to get Concordance in three different specs.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on May 24, 2017, 06:44:54 AM
Blizzard mentioned in their post that base AP income isn't what it used to be, and specifically mentioned the Elite Strike missions when the command center is up.  So, time for some arithmetic.

Power Ascended requires 2.23 billion AP.  Back when the ceiling was AK 50, the minimal plan for Power Ascended on an alt was to wait for AK 50 (late summer/early fall), for a multiplier of 552001, so bringing the requirement down to about 4K base AP, or 20 green world quests.  With the ceiling at AK 40, 56K base AP will be required, or about 280 green world quests.

That's too much world quest grinding, so the new plan might revolve around the order hall.  Leveling order hall champions takes a bit of calendar time, but not a lot of keyboard time, especially if you fund your alt with order hall resources using blood of sargeras on your main.  Once you have a maxed-out set of champions (especially if you pick up Meatball), the Elite Strike AP mission awards 3125 base AP, and regular AP missions at 200% success chance award about 1000 base AP.  So a mix of, say, five Elite Strike missions and 40 regular order hall AP missions would do it.  Some of the higher-value world quests could be mixed in as they award around 500 base AP.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on May 24, 2017, 08:52:13 AM
Power Ascended requires 2.23 billion AP.  Back when the ceiling was AK 50, the minimal plan for Power Ascended on an alt was to wait for AK 50 (late summer/early fall), for a multiplier of 552001, so bringing the requirement down to about 4K base AP, or 20 green world quests.  With the ceiling at AK 40, 56K base AP will be required, or about 280 green world quests.

Huh!  I didn't think reaching Power Ascended was the devs' intention for 7.2, so now I'm wondering if I conflated some messages.

To me, it totally makes sense that the AK cap slowly goes up over minor releases -- juuuust close enough that people feel it's worth it to collect AP while waiting for the AK cap.  (Or, in my case, I prefer OHR WQs, which I then use to preferentially run OH missions for AP, which has the side-effect of levelling up my champions.)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on May 24, 2017, 09:15:14 AM
Huh!  I didn't think reaching Power Ascended was the devs' intention for 7.2, so now I'm wondering if I conflated some messages.
Power Ascended requires one point in Concordance of the Legionfall, which is a pretty modest milestone.  I got there yesterday on one of my raiding characters; Fletcher has had it for almost two weeks.  Most raiders will have reached this point before Tomb opens, even if they only get AP from raiding.

Maxing out Concordance at 50 points is the unreachable goal.  Unlike the old AP sink, the cost of Concordance per point rises exponentially rather than linearly, and even at AK 50 the maximum multiplier wasn't enough to get all that far in.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on May 24, 2017, 10:29:46 AM
Concordance has been hotfixed to grant a 4000 stat proc (up from 2000), and 300 additional points per rank (up from 200).  That's still only about 0.15% throughput per rank after the first point (which is now worth about 2% throughput) if my previous theorycrafting on my balance druid is representative.

ETA: the proc rate was also increased, so I'll have to do new theorycraft when simc is updated.

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/status/867444216745439232
https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/status/867452620767600640
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on May 24, 2017, 01:57:32 PM
I think at least some of the AK nerf to 40 was also PvP related? Concordance is active in rated PvP and a lot of people were sitting out/not doing as much on their PvP alts until max AK instead of competing at a disadvantage. I don't know whether or not that was a reasonable approach from those players, but it was what they were doing.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on May 26, 2017, 07:27:56 PM
ETA: the proc rate was also increased, so I'll have to do new theorycraft when simc is updated.
I ran a few simulations.  On a balance druid the first point appeared to be worth 2.6%; on an assassination rogue, 3.4%, for either single-target or multi-target fights.  So in the 3% ballpark.  Subsequent points are still pretty negligible at around 0.2%-0.25% per point, although their effect will add up faster.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on May 27, 2017, 07:00:55 AM
The nether disruptor is up with the Seal Your Fate buff, so you can pick up three extra rolls at the nether disruptor over today through Monday.  You can probably just pick up all three on Monday based on what I saw last time.  You can spend an extra roll on Apocron's ilvl-900 loot table if you're close to the maximum.

Speaking of extra rolls: in recent expansions, each raid tier used a different extra roll currency, suggesting that Tomb will use a different currency.  But I haven't seen any announcement to that effect, nor have I been able to find a datamined currency for the Tomb extra rolls.  Since the data for Tomb was included in the 7.2 patch, you'd expect the currency to be there in the data.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on May 31, 2017, 09:24:27 AM
Tomb of Sargeras will open on June 20 (June 27 for mythic and the first wing of raid finder).  So three more weeks of Nighthold including the current lockout.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/20783382
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on June 02, 2017, 11:08:21 AM
A couple of tweets from the warcraftdevs account announced that relinguished tokens (the ones bought with 5000 nethershards) will not reward Tomb of Sargeras loot and will also not proc any of the legendaries being added in 7.2.5.  This decision seems to follow a pretty consistent WoW design principle of "don't encourage hoarding of currencies other than gold," although applying that principle to legendaries might be a little bit strained.

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/status/870704885234139137
https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/status/870700747427504128
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on June 02, 2017, 12:12:55 PM
Does this mean that if your character has all their gear at 880+ and you've got a full complement of Legendaries that Nethershards are basically useless? Is there anything else worthwhile to do with Nethershards?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on June 02, 2017, 12:55:04 PM
I believe there is some toys you can get with them.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on June 02, 2017, 12:59:25 PM
Basically.  They are a catch-up mechanic, so once you've caught up in gear and bought all the toys, you're left with buying nethershard essences and selling them on the AH.  The reliquary gear can titanforge, so in theory you could still get a really good titanforged trinket from the old loot tables, like an arcanocrystal or one of the better dungeon drops.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on June 05, 2017, 11:32:17 AM
Speaking of extra rolls: in recent expansions, each raid tier used a different extra roll currency, suggesting that Tomb will use a different currency.  But I haven't seen any announcement to that effect, nor have I been able to find a datamined currency for the Tomb extra rolls.  Since the data for Tomb was included in the 7.2 patch, you'd expect the currency to be there in the data.
This question was answered in a tweet today: there is no separate extra roll currency for Tomb, so you can stock up on seals of broken fate for the 20th.

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/status/871808755561668608
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on June 06, 2017, 07:28:52 AM
Relatively big day today:

* Class mounts become available if you have kept up with the legionfall campaign.

* If you got artifact knowledge 26 on the first day of patch 7.2, you can max out your AK today.

* The thousand boat bash begins today and ends Thursday.  (Go to Thousand Needles; as always, no permanent rewards for micro-holidays.)

It's also world quest week, so pick up the weekly from the adventure guide (or in Dalaran) before doing any world quests.  Also, the nether disruptor is at 94% when I write this, so there will be an ilvl 900 world boss soon.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on June 08, 2017, 06:02:31 PM
Patch 7.2.5 is confirmed for next Tuesday (June 13).

https://twitter.com/Warcraft/status/872983505961013248

ETA link to the patch notes: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/news/20812012/world-of-warcraft-7-2-5-patch-notes
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on June 09, 2017, 11:44:44 AM
Reading over the patch notes, I saw some 7.2.x stuff about professions that I hadn't really paid attention to before:

* Kristin can stop complaining about rank 3 flask recipes because they will proc more often.  (This is how it's written in the patch notes, honest.)  Mining, herbing, and skinning rank 3 skills will also be easier to get.
* Healing pots will heal for more (not sure how much more).  I don't know if the equivalent item from the patches of dirt in the druid order hall is getting a buff to match.
* Nomi work orders can produce Nomi Snacks, which complete the next five Nomi work orders immediately.  Nomi Snacks can be traded, so even if you've finished cooking, you can try to convert cheap reagents into something you can sell on the AH.

You can also obliterum-upgrade items up to item level 885, up from 875.  (ETA: in reality, up to 900, it seems, due to a last-minute decision.)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on June 10, 2017, 10:16:37 AM
Unholy Determination Fos is being removed in 7.2.5
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on June 13, 2017, 08:07:29 AM
Realms are up, even though maintenance was scheduled until 6pm.

I had a lot of trouble logging into battle.net; the queue times were all over the place.  I gave up and clicked "go offline", which lets you launch games and log  in that way.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on June 13, 2017, 08:55:43 AM
Back in Draenor, you could buy the three weekly extra rolls with gold, garrison resources, or honor.  With the PvP revamp in legion, the option to use honor went away, leaving just gold and order resources.  7.2.5 adds the PvP currency option back again by allowing you to buy a roll with five Marks of Honor (doubling for each of the weekly rolls, just like the other currencies).

http://www.wowhead.com/news=265850/new-events-in-wow-for-june-13-patch-7-2-5-live-pandaria-timewalking-event-ana-mo
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on June 13, 2017, 12:01:17 PM
A hotfix to be applied soon will make artifact knowledge research orders take four hours each, instead of five days.  It would be nice if they also increase the queue length from 2 to something higher so that you don't have to log in every eight hours, but they didn't say anything about that.  Regardless, new and returning players should be able to get to AK 40 in just a few days.

http://us.battle.net/forums/wow/topic/20755647442#1
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on June 13, 2017, 12:05:44 PM
*Sigh* Just after I got every alt that I care about to AK40. The change that would help would be to increase that AK cap to 50 (or even 45), but I suppose they have to leave something for 7.3.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on June 14, 2017, 03:24:39 AM
*Sigh* Just after I got every alt that I care about to AK40.

Well, I assume that's exactly why they did it: anyone who was at AK before is the increase to 40 is now hitting 40, so it doesn't make much sense to have a giant lag for people to catch up.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on June 20, 2017, 08:27:05 AM
People on the general forum are saying that you should visit the blacksmith and pick up the "upgrade your legendary" quest before opening your mythic+ cache today (if you ran a mythic+ last week), or you'll be out 20 essences unless you file a ticket.  Blizzard developers previously said they would fix this bad interaction by having the mythic+ cache give the quest, but that may not have actually happened.

I can confirm that if you pick up the quest at the blacksmith first, you do get the 20 writhing essences from opening the mythic+ cache.

Also, there was a bizarre and confusing sequence of tweets from @warcraftdevs about when the maximum mythic+ cache equipment reward increase goes into effect, but the upshot is that you should benefit (i.e. receive a better item next Tuesday) from doing a +15 this week.

Also also, pick up the Power Overwhelming buff from the island (it's the mage tower buff this time around) before doing world quests for emissaries if you're doing that for writhing essences.  That will get you bonus AP.

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/status/877231026183045121
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on June 21, 2017, 07:48:40 AM
The command center will come up soon (it's 92% built) with the buff that lets you get a free legendary piece of follower equipment.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on June 21, 2017, 01:02:17 PM
Looking at http://www.wowhead.com/item=151375/writhing-essence#comments am I correct that LFR Tomb of Sargeras does not give writhing essences?

So then my math says, for a non-raider, it's:
* 7 emissary caches * 3.5 expected = 21
* 1 Mythic+ run = 20
= 42, so 2 weeks per legendary to upgrade?  And I guess more like 3 weeks for the 2 equipped Legendaries one might use?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on June 22, 2017, 02:42:51 PM
On Tuesday, I determined (unfortunately) that Writhing Essences didn't usefully continue stacking after you accumulated 50 for a legendary upgrade; turning in the quest would reset your progress to 0.

This was changed today by making the essences a currency, so you shouldn't have to hearth out of your raid after a boss kill brings you to the end of a quest.  (You might want to anyway to upgrade a legendary you're wearing, but you won't have to just to efficiently continue on to your next upgrade.)  It didn't seem like there was retroactive compensation for people who lost essences to quest completion before today, and I don't really expect it since I don't think it would be easy for them to do.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/20863656
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on June 23, 2017, 12:03:52 PM
It looks like Writhing Essences have been added to the daily heroic dungeon.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on June 25, 2017, 06:31:30 AM
Looking at http://www.wowhead.com/item=151375/writhing-essence#comments am I correct that LFR Tomb of Sargeras does not give writhing essences?

So then my math says, for a non-raider, it's:
* 7 emissary caches * 3.5 expected = 21
* 1 Mythic+ run = 20
= 42, so 2 weeks per legendary to upgrade?  And I guess more like 3 weeks for the 2 equipped Legendaries one might use?

Plus 5 from the daily random heroic, so around 77 a week.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on June 25, 2017, 10:16:00 AM
I did three emissary quests a couple of days ago, and got a total of 19 writing essences. It appears that the emissary rewards of the WEs is higher than it used to be.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on June 25, 2017, 11:55:17 AM
I did three emissary quests a couple of days ago, and got a total of 19 writing essences. It appears that the emissary rewards of the WEs is higher than it used to be.

If  you went with 6 an EQ you would be just a few short of doing two a week  (6*7, 5*7 and 20 equals 97)
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Snique on June 26, 2017, 09:05:42 AM
I hate to ask stupid questions but while I'm at work during the day I can't search gaming sites. What's an "emissary quest"?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: jsoh on June 26, 2017, 09:22:08 AM
The "do 4 world quests in a zone, get a box with useless gear and maybe some gold" stuff.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on June 27, 2017, 08:50:14 AM
At the broken shore quest hub next to the building table, Khadgar and Velen have quests for the Tomb of Sargeras raid.  I don't think they were there last week.  The one to "use the pillars of creation to seal the tomb of Sargeras" (beat the first six bosses) rewards 140 million AP.  The one to kill Kil'Jaeden has no obvious reward (and has no entry on wowhead yet, so I can't check comments).  Neither quest mentions a difficulty level, so they are probably doable on LFR once the relevant wings are available.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on June 27, 2017, 09:25:53 PM
The Pillars of Creation quest wasn't giving objective completion to anyone in our raid, and as far as we were able to tell on the bug forums today, it looks like it may, accidentally, not have been flagged as a raid quest?
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on June 29, 2017, 03:03:00 PM
Writhing Essences also drop 4 or 5 from the bosses in ToS in LFR


Edit: The Pillars of Creation quest was giving credit on Wednesday maybe they hot fixed it?

Edit 2: Looks like they where http://www.wowhead.com/news=266649/blizzard-posts-june-28th-legion-season-3-cutoffs-pillars-of-creation-hotfix-7-3-

Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on July 01, 2017, 06:57:24 AM
The reward for this week's "do four mythic dungeons" quest is pretty generous for the current point in raid progression, at least for those who have been doing normal-mode raiding.  After 8/9N on week one and 9/9N+1/9H on week two, I got a heroic Tomb item, which had item level 925 without warforging.  (The base item level of heroic Tomb items is more likely to be 915, but items from Kil'Jaeden's heroic loot table start at 925.)

[ETA: I also got a heroic Tomb item on my DH, who hasn't done any raiding in Tomb, so there doesn't seem to be any raiding requirement.]
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on July 01, 2017, 05:01:57 PM
Writhing Essences also drop 4 or 5 from the bosses in ToS in LFR


Edit: The Pillars of Creation quest was giving credit on Wednesday maybe they hot fixed it?

Edit 2: Looks like they where http://www.wowhead.com/news=266649/blizzard-posts-june-28th-legion-season-3-cutoffs-pillars-of-creation-hotfix-7-3-

The bosses in LFR did not drop off bosses I had killed on normal.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on July 04, 2017, 03:19:05 PM
The conversion of Writhing Essences to currency solved most of the edge cases with upgrading legendaries, but there is still a gotcha: if you don't have the quest (Unsettled Power) in your log, you won't earn Writhing Essences from any source.  I didn't have it my log (I guess I forgot to pick it up again after the last turnin) and missed out on the 20 essences from the mythic+ cache this week; fortunately I noticed before running a heroic and doing the daily emissary quest.

I ticketed to see if I could get the essences retroactively, but the response was that they won't fix this problem via ticketing any more (they did for the first week).  It's not a big deal for me since I'm going on turnin number five and only use three legendaries regularly, but I thought it was worth a note--make sure to always pick up Unsettled Power after turning it in.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Snique on July 06, 2017, 04:50:39 AM
Two minor things I had not noticed before:

1. The bloods vendor in Dalaran now sells an "Abundant Order Resources Cache" much more rewarding per blood than the smaller one. It's also BOA and a great way to get your alts over the early drought. Or if you don't feel like grinding the 10k and 15k for the last couple order hall upgrades you can now just buy it.

There's some math to be done here about the value of bloods this way since you can convert order resources into gold via missions once or twice a day but I'm too lazy to do that math.

2. This week the Darkmoon Faire has the fireworks display at the top of each hour. It's silly, but I like the animation.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on July 06, 2017, 07:22:09 AM
1. The bloods vendor in Dalaran now sells an "Abundant Order Resources Cache" much more rewarding per blood than the smaller one.
According to the tooltips, you get 4000 order resources for 20 blood, which is the same 200 per blood that you would get from the smaller cache.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Honorata on July 11, 2017, 08:08:42 PM
Based on some comments I saw on Wow Forums, it looks like BT Timewalking uses the old traditional raid lockouts instead of the modern loot locks, so be careful pugging it if you were planning to.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Snique on July 12, 2017, 04:58:26 PM
If you are doing the timewalking BT raid you may want to stop in Shatt first and pick up the quest for "Disturbance Detected: Black Temple" if you are interested in the 500 timewalking badgers.

I've also heard tell there's now a tw-badge-buyable toy that will open a portal to (old) BT if you are on a character that never got/no longer has the medallion of karabor. But I haven't found that yet.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on July 12, 2017, 07:46:01 PM
The command center will come up soon (it's 92% built) with the buff that lets you get a free legendary piece of follower equipment.
It's doing so again (95% built right now).
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on July 13, 2017, 07:52:34 AM
Blizzard claims the Black Temple timewalking lockout issue is fixed, and also that the weekly world quest boss in Tomb (Dresanoth) is fixed so that you can fight him normally instead of killing him with AOE spells.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/20863656
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Fernia on July 13, 2017, 09:57:27 AM
We should get an achievement for killing the imaginary boss before it was fixed.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on July 13, 2017, 10:24:00 AM
We should get an achievement for killing the imaginary boss before it was fixed.

Or maybe a FoS that they remove next week.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on July 13, 2017, 12:15:56 PM
There already is a feat of strength.  You just can't see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcYppAs6ZdI
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Snique on July 17, 2017, 06:39:49 AM
Dear lord I've just been rickrolled by Marco...
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Winston on July 18, 2017, 10:25:26 AM
FWIW, the World Quest Group Finder mod has been updated. It requires a few more clicks to fit with Blizzard's guidelines, but it's still faster and more reliable than Blizzard's own "right-click on the quest name" mechanism.

The only problem I have with group-finding is that you can be dumped into a PvP server without warning, but I suppose that's been an issue since cross-realm group finding became available a few expansions ago.
I discovered just last week that there's a WQGF option that skips the PvP servers. Finding a group has never been smoother!
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Thanamira on July 18, 2017, 10:45:07 AM
For what it's worth, I think the default group finder automatically deflags you once you drop group from a PvP server.  That change went through a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on July 18, 2017, 11:03:36 AM
For what it's worth, I think the default group finder automatically deflags you once you drop group from a PvP server.  That change went through a few weeks ago.

Interesting also noticed when I last did some PvP battlegrounds the PvP flag went right after I left the BG.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on July 18, 2017, 11:07:20 AM
That's been in for months in my experience.  But I think just the possibility of unwelcome PvP while in the group is enough to bother Winston.

Finding a group via the regular group finder is pretty smooth in my experience, with one exception: for the world bosses on the Broken Shore, there are frequently a bunch of auto-accept groups with fewer than five people, which automatically de-list when they reach five people, and then the group falls apart.  I don't know if that's WQGF's fault or just a frequent mistake made by people creating groups by hand.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: **andius on July 18, 2017, 11:42:07 AM
That's been in for months in my experience.  But I think just the possibility of unwelcome PvP while in the group is enough to bother Winston.

Finding a group via the regular group finder is pretty smooth in my experience, with one exception: for the world bosses on the Broken Shore, there are frequently a bunch of auto-accept groups with fewer than five people, which automatically de-list when they reach five people, and then the group falls apart.  I don't know if that's WQGF's fault or just a frequent mistake made by people creating groups by hand.

Can you create a raid via the group finder? The old way was prompt once the group was full but it now just tells you the group has been de-listed.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on August 09, 2017, 06:31:57 AM
The nether disruptor is up with the "get one extra roll each day for three days" buff.

The command center will be coming up with the "get a free piece of legendary follower equipment" buff, probably in 3-5 days (the mage tower is ahead so will likely be built first, with a less interesting buff).

LFR Kil'Jaeden is available for the first time this week, making the rank 2 Vantus Rune: Tomb of Sargeras (http://www.wowhead.com/item=146406/vantus-rune-tomb-of-sargeras) recipe available to non-raiding characters.  Expect some wipes if you do it this week.  Armageddon is the main raid-wiper.  The debuff from soaking a small armageddon patch does not stack in LFR, so people can soak consecutive armageddons.  Having adds up going into the second transition is also likely a raid wipe, so it's important for people to stack those on the boss to be killed quickly.

There are doomsayers in the capital cities, with new and sometimes amusing pamphlets.  I'm not aware of any achievement for collecting the pamphlets this time around.  wowhead had an article (http://www.wowhead.com/news=269446/patch-7-3-foreshadowing-doomsayers-in-dalaran-and-argus-skybox-now-visible-to-al) if you just want to read the pamphlets offline.

Argus is visible in the skybox for everyone, not just players who have killed KJ.
Title: Re: 7.2.x stuff
Post by: Marco on August 17, 2017, 10:18:22 AM
The Trial of Style is active now and will remain active through Monday.  Even if you have no interest in the event, note that all transmog is free while the event is active.  There is a transmog vendor in the enchanting tradeskill shop in this expansion's Dalaran.